brake repair-wheel cylinders

You can buy the calipers completely rebuilt on an exchange basis for about $30-$35 per wheel. Absolutely replace or rebuild both sides at the same time or you will most likely end up with a vehicle that will pull in the direction of the most recently rebuilt caliper.

cylinders

Wrong, Wrong, and Wrong. You should always replace (or rebuild) wheel cylinders and/or calipers in pairs. You wouldn't put new shoes or pads on just ONE side would you?

. . =3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D (concerning just replacing one wheel cylinder) snipped-for-privacy@not.hotmail.com (Steve=A0Barker) writes in.......

Wrong, Wrong, and Wrong.

You should always replace (or rebuild) wheel cylinders and/or calipers in pairs. You wouldn't put new shoes or pads on just ONE side would you?

On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 16:48:25 +0000, Steve Barker rearranged some electrons to form:

Steve is right. They aren't that expensive, why be cheap with something that can cost you your life!!!

If you read my post I said that you replace shoes or pads in pairs. If the hardware ain't broke, don't fix it. If you are working at shop rate, replace everything and gouge the piss outta the customer, but this guy is a do it yourselfer. Replace the leaky stuff. There is no reason to replace calipers or wheel cylinders in pairs. Find me the proof otherwise guys. It is not available.

so, you have a new caliper that pushes harder than an old half worn out one, ... you don't see how this could cause a problem?

I agree, just replace the one wheel cylinder that's leaking. That way when the other side (it has just as much rust and crud in it as the one already leaking) starts leaking you get to replace the shoes again and redo the entire job. Yup.... makes perfect sense to me... spend a dollar to save a dime. Bob

The proof is , smart alec, 30+ years of experience. If you don't replace or rebuild in pairs, it WILL pull to one side. 99.9% guaranteed. And for another $20 why not just do it right? I suppose you just resurface the rotor or drum that is scored, and not both of them eh?

Look at the metal piston:

that the pin actuates against. They are always pitted!

You can hone a cylinder, replace the cups, but the pits in the cylinders and the pistons are always going to be there.

Also, It's getting harder and harder to buy kits, with name brand cylinders at $10.00 and calipers at $20.00 name brand rotors like Raybestos at $25.00.

When you cut them, you get so close to the minimum size, they no longer dissapate heat and you get brake fluid boil and hence, pedal fade,

Are we really gouging the customer, or preventing a life threatening accident?

Mr Shadetree Mechanic!

Refinish King

I resent being called a thief, when I practice safety maintenance and repairs, It could be your child's life I save!

It may not be bad yet, but if one side went bad, the other side is going to be close behind. It's just not worth all that hassle to do just one side, when the wheel cylinders are dirt cheap. You can rebuild them, but at the price the auto parts sells them, it's hardly worth the trouble. Also, then you gotta have a hone, have oversize cups, etc...Not worth it... But yet another reason, is you should flush the whole system out. And if you are going to do all that, it's just plain silly to reuse the dirty nearly wore out cylinder. If wheel cylinders were real expensive, maybe I could see your point, but they are cheap. Why gamble on someones safety by reusing old wore out junk? Just doesn't make sense. Do it right the first time, and you won't be doing it again for quite a while. Thats how you *really* save money. Not to mention, it might save someones neck somewhere down the line. Would you want your wife or children driving around in a car that had half of a brake job? The dude with the car may not be the only one that drives it... MK

So, throughout all of this, I have yet to see it proven in print. It doesn't exist. Shoes, pads, rotors, and drums are replaced in axle sets...calipers and cylinders are replaced when failing. "Going to fail" is not a criteria of necessity. Only a matter of opinion.

Just because you get a "warm fuzzy" over replacing them in pairs does not make it "necessary". He asked if it was necessary, I said no. I was right. Not "wrong, wrong and wrong"...just not right in your opinion. You're entitled to that. Sorry if my stating a fact got you all so worked up, but try disputing that it is a fact...that's all I asked. Of course, I was treated to more opinions, and even a guy who decided to tell me about his experience level...thanks, but, we're not hiring.

You keep replacing them in pairs and getting the customers all choked up over your touchy, feely opinions. But the fact remains that it is NOT required, and does nothing for safety. Test both, sure...always...but don't replace what ain't broke. Whether it's expensive or not, when it comes to my car, I leave the good parts alone, and fix the broken ones. That's why I HAVE to do my own work...too much concern over liability has mechanics thinking with their attorney's advice, and feeding customers the same garbage that you are trying to feed this guy.

In my opinion you're not only cheap but foolish as well. Do you wait until your engine starts misfiring and then only replace the one fouled plug rather than just doing a tuneup and throwing away perfectly good plugs? Bob

I think your missing the big picture, .... YOU are the only one that doesn't think that the parts should be replaced in pairs. Everyone has given you reasons why they should and you dismiss the reasons.

Maybe it's not everyone else that is wrong about this, maybe it's you.

LR8, Jeff "I replace in Pairs" Hawkins

You're obviously not a professional automobile technician. And you are WRONG. I will not be following this thread past this reply.

Ok, how many "in writing" s do you need?

Bob, the question is brakes. In a tune-up procedure, all plugs are replaced. In a caliper or wheel cylinder replacement procedure, just get the broken one outta there. Man, your analogies are terrible.

I work for a public agency servicing fleet vehicles...I thought you all wanted us to be cheap. You vote to save money on your taxes...cheap is what you pay me to be. Foolish would be to replace the calipers in pairs just because it feels good. Or because you have 30 years experience.

If it's good enough for a school bus, it's good enough for a pickup truck. Never had one school bus "pull" or fail due to replacing one side, and we REGULARLY replace calipers/wheel cyl. individually when found to be faulty. Shop policy. And we are one of the SAFEST and overly cautious states when it comes to school bus regulations. So, I would venture to say that it is NOT "necessary".

I could've told him to replace everything...don't troubleshoot to find the problem... that's the easy way, and also the reason that shops charge flat rate. Get them "In and out"...use flow charts, procedures, SOP's etc. But a guy in his driveway can fix what's broke and move on. He is not endangering his children's lives and all that other stuff. If he is leaking, he replaces the part, cleans the area with Brakleen, and puts a non-directional finish on the rotor/drum surface. If he NEEDS to do a COMPLETE brake service due to wear, then he can go for your suggestion. In this case, he had a leak...He wanted to fix it...The word he used was "necessary"...I said not necessary...that's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

sets...calipers

Well gee Jeff, that explains everything. You don't care if the job is done right because you won't have a pissed off customer standing in front of you two months after you did a half assed brake job. You won't have to foot the bill for replacing his nearly new but now soaked with brake fluid brake shoes. Hell, for you. shoddy, half assed work is nothing but job security which costs the tax payers MORE than if the job was done right the first time.

For whatever it's worth I don't always replace calipers in pairs, some of them can be expensive and they don't generally ruin the pads if they do leak. Wheel cylinders are another story, if one is stuck or leaking the other one will be a problem long before those new shoes are worn out. Bob

Define "right". I have looked in every manual I own. Including the FORD TRUCK manual, and the AUTOMOTIVE BRAKING SYSTEMS textbook (Theissen) and can find no mention of replacing in axle sets. "Symptom: Leaky wheel cylinder --- Replace wheel cylinder".

Again, I reiterate that you have to inspect and test both sides, but that you do not HAVE to replace both as a rule. If you want to make it a rule that is your choice, but it is not a rule.

But if you feel the need to miss my point again, then argue all you want. I answered the man's question the way that it was asked, plain and simple. The rest of you chimed in with your opinions of my answer. It has nothing to do with job security, but merely fact. It CAN be done, and the choice to do otherwise is personal.

On Tue, 24 Feb 2004 18:45:52 +0000, Steve Barker rearranged some electrons to form:

Of course he's not. He's a government employee.