Effects of Ethanol fuel

Technically, that's 85% gasoline, 15% ethanol.

What adverse affect are you thinking of? The engine is designed for ethanol use, so there should be no adverse affect as a result of using it. An Ethanol motor does not require ethanol be used, it merely allows ethanol to be used.

I don't know if this is what you mean, but horsepower will suffer, and fuel mileage will suffer.

My '07 F150 loses about 4mpg on 85/15 ethanol. I drive a lot, so I don't run E85 anymore.

Spdloader

Other way around. 85% ethanol and 15% gasoline. "Normal" gasoline is already 10% ethanol.

Interesting. I did not know that there was so much ethanol in the blend. Do they always make it that way, or am I right that they do it with 85% gas and 15% alcohol in some places. We don't have ethanol here that I am aware of.

Not all stations have E85, it will be marked as not all vehicles can handle it. Not only are there computer changes, but some seals have to be changed as alcohol is tough on them.

Just about all regular gas is about 10% for "environmental" reasons, although to be honest, as you burn more with less pollution, I don't know what benefits there are. Less fuel with more pollution per mile, or more fuel with less pollution per mile. Sounds almost like a flip a coin situation. E85 is even worse as far as mileage.

Not all states require this. In this area of SC, about the only one that does use ethanol is Enmark. Personally, I don't use it since the main reason is to preserve what fuel reserves we have. Unfortunately, when I run 10% ethanol, my mileage decreases by almost 20% (2002 Escape, V6 auto, 56K miles), and since the difference per gallon is only 2-3 cents, I'm losing my butt using it.

SC Tom

Not necessarily so. It varies station to station. Some (around here - NC) are more likely to use it than others.

A lot depends upon the state and whether emission inspections are required. Around here in MD, all stations use 10% ethanol.

One of my clients here is the Petroleum Marketers Association. I had a talk with one of the engineers there a few months back about this topic. He indicated it was pretty much up to the distributor and that the ecotards had gotten a law enacted prohibiting the labelling of the pumps as to whether they contained it or not. I run race bikes that do not like ethanol. He said some stations were more likely to run blends and others less so. Around here, Shell, Mobil, Exxon are less likely and BP more so. Not a given, but a start. The distributor will apparently indicate so if they're asked.

On Wed, 23 Apr 2008 13:10:37 -0400, Spdloader rearranged some electrons to say:

snipped-for-privacy@e53g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...

This is because for a given volume, ethanol has less chemical energy than gasoline does.

Thanks David, I'm aware of the properties of ethanol, just trying to answer the OPs question.

Spdloader

On Fri, 25 Apr 2008 09:13:14 -0400, Spdloader rearranged some electrons to say:

Yes, I should have posted that as a response to the OP, not you. Sorry.

I have an '07 F150 FX4 with the FFV 5.4 liter engine. The only adverse effect seems to be fuel consumption. I get about 2 MPG less when using E85 compared to regular unleaded. I do not notice any decrease in power and it seems to run smoother on E85.

No, that is not true for everyone. Some areas have "normal gasoline" with ethanol, some don't. In my area, gasoline with ethanol is the exception, not the rule. Murphy and Crown sell gasoline with ethanol, the "big boys" don't. The Murphy gasoline in my area is E5 (5% ethanol). From

: "Do your gasolines contain Ethanol?

"In many areas of the country, oxygenates are required to be part of the gasoline formula. In those areas, our gasolines will contain ethanol, which is classified as an oxygenate [US Fuel Requirements Map]. Ethanol is also used in California Cleaner Burning Gasoline and the Reformulated gasolines required in many of the major metropolitan areas of the country. In addition, to meet the Renewable Fuels Standard included as part of the Energy Independence and Security Act of 2007, ethanol blends will be introduced to many more areas of the country over the next few years."

See the Fuel Requirements Map at

. Some state have rules specifically requiring the use of ethanol (Minnesota, Louisiana, others). Some state require the use of an oxygenate and ethanol is now preferred over MBTE (California, New Jersey, others). But many states don't require oxygenates in general or ethanol specifically.

Regards,

Ed White

In my area (NC) the Murphy Stations and Crown Stations have labels indicating that their gasolines contain ethanol.

Ed

There is no way that should happen. Ethanol has 85% as much energy as regular gasoline. So if you have 10% ethanol, at the most the energy content is reduced by 1.5%. On several occasions I have purchased the ethanol gasoline at the Murphy stations in my area (NC) and I can't detect any difference in fuel economy (2006 Nissan Frontier V6 and 2007 Ford Fusion V6). I keep careful records, so I am sure a 20% decrease would be obvious. Ten years ago, during the winter months, we were forced to use oxygenated gasoline. I could some difference when using that stuff (around 3% decrease) but I have never seen anything like a 20% decrease, nor would I expect to. Your 2002 Escape should be easily able to compensate for the use of E10 with minimal effect. If you are really getting a 20% decrease, there is something wrong with your car.

Ed

Most of Maryland is classed as a "Severe Ozone Nonattainment Area." For these areas, the EPA requires oxygenated fuels. The primary additive to create these fuels is ethanol. Personally, I'd much rather have ethanol than MBTE (the former favorite oxygenate). Area that aren't classified as "Ozone Nonattainment Areas" don't require oxygenated fuels. Gasoline with Ethanol may be sold in these areas, but it is not required.

Ed

I wouldn't expect the power to suffer noticeably. The PCM should compensate by adding more fuel. If anything, I'd expect slightly higher maximum power. A 4 mpg decrease is exactly what the EPA predicts for a 2007 FFV F150. It is a little greater than I would have predicted based on the change in energy content (E85 should have a round 80% as much energy per gallon as regular gasoline, depending on the figure you use for regular gasoline) but I suppose other factors are at work. The EPA admits that fuel econmy can drop by 20% to 30% when using E85 (compared to regular gasoline). They do support my claim that the performance should not be affected by the use of E85 (see

). Ed

Ed