04 lesabre: various interior lights

Yes, too common. Soon, the switches won't work either. I have the cruise control button jammed "on" with a toothpick broken off at the top.

Mine is an '01 and I have a long list of things falling apart. The climate control is hot on drivers side, cold on passenger's side too. I've not even looked into that yet. I suspect a damper that is not moving.

sigh dumb little things like this are part of the reason so many go to overseas marques....

peter

And get the same treatment...

DUH light bulbs do not last forever!

| > there are many interior lights which dont work on my 04 lesabre. in | > particular the radio, climate control and steering wheel control lights. | > is this common? | | Yes, too common. Soon, the switches won't work either. I have the cruise | control button jammed "on" with a toothpick broken off at the top. | | Mine is an '01 and I have a long list of things falling apart. The climate | control is hot on drivers side, cold on passenger's side too. I've not even | looked into that yet. I suspect a damper that is not moving.

My '97 LeSabre is flawless. Guess they don't make them that way any more. Did get a strange "security" light flashing, but found that the trunk was not properly closed.

My '97 was not, but flaws were minor. My '91 had a host of problems, as did my '84 and '83. My '07 Sonata has been flawless so far. Better than any car I've ever owned at 57,000 miles.

Any mechanical device will eventually break or wear out. The problem GM gave me was too much too soon and no help.

The J D Powers is "initial quality" IIRC. While that is a good thing, they are rating cars that have no real miles yet. The best survey would be at

Why would the do that, the are surveying NEW car buyers?

The statistical fact is the average new vehicle buyer in the US replaces that vehicle with another new vehicle in three to four years with 30,000 to

Less than 30% of new vehicle buyers in the US keep a vehicle for up to ten years, and only around 2% keep them longer, according to the US D.O.C.

OK, pick a number, if 50k is too much, how about 25k? 30K? Those that do trade at low miles sell those cars to buyers that never buy new, but still want reliability. Some of us put 70k to 150k on our cars. They will need repairs along the way, but an overall good track record helps with resale value.

I expect any car is going to be pretty good right from the showroom, but I don't want to have to worry about problems later.

I liked my car from the showroom and would have given it high marks. Less than two years later though, it was turning to crap and the slippery slope got steeper after the warranty. Right now it only gets about 3000 miles a year so I don't want to invest in a new car to replace it, but it continues to deteriorate.

What part of "Why would they do that, the are surveying NEW car buyers, did you not understand?

Yes, I get that, but it is almost meaningless. New cars from the factory are good. Cars with 25,000 miles are starting to show the flaws. That is what counts in reliability. I can assemble a car with duct tape and get it out the showroom door.

What part of long term reliability don't you get?

DUH Like I said they are surveying the average NEW car buyers who recently bought cars, not USED car owners.

If they waited five years the survey would be useless because in five years the cars on sales then are not the same cars that were sold five years sooner.

If the wanted to survey buyers that still owned their new car five years later to print for those who might be looking at a USED car, they would do so, but there would be far fewer original owners to survey and they would first need to find those that STILL own their car.

It is far cheaper and easier to simply buy the list of recent buyer from the manufacturer

By the way where do you live that you see cars today that are starting to show wear at 25K, Russia?

Never said five years. I said some amount of miles that will offer true predictability of the drivetrain that is often used for many years and many models. Like the old 4 speed automatic GM ued for a long time with some tweaks.

No, the Buick LeSabre in my driveway.

I'm try one more time then I give up, BECAUSE they are surveying NEW car buyers not USED car buyers.

The average new vehicle buyer in the US REPLACES that vehicle with another NEW vehicle in three to four years with an average of 30,000 t0 45,000 miles on the odometer.

Surveying NEW cars is pretty much meaningless though. Most are perfect for the first 30 to 90 days. Who really gives a crap that one model is 1.2 defects per thousand while another is 1.22 defects per thousand. Tell me which one holds up better over the expected life of the vehicle. If I'm replacing every 30,000 miles, is model A going to cost me $100 in repairs while model B is typically costing $900? That is meaningful information. Even if covered under warranty, there is the aggravation factor of taking it back to the dealer.

What Powers is doing is the rough equivalent of surveying cans of beans sitting on the supermarket shelf. It does not tell you how they are going to taste next week when you cook them.

That is the way I feel too. Well said, in my estimation.

Perhaps but the cars that were part of the survey are not on the shelf, they are in the hands of the buyers that bought both domestic and imports and the fact is they all fall into the same small 25 category of those that had a problem. LOL

The failure rate is only per hundred, not per thousand, the selling rate was still up around 14,000,000