Depends on the car.
The Chevy Aveo is built in Korea. The Toyota Sienna is built in the US
and has something like 85% US content.
If American-made is a major criteria, then you have to go by the
What percent of cars built in Japan by Toyota for the US are Chinese?
How about cars built by Toyota in the US?
The Aveo has 1% domestic content and while the current Sienna includes
something like 85% doemstic content, the Toyota competitor closest to
the Aveo, the Yaris, has 0% doemstic content.
True. I have posted links to the Government data that has car by car
listings (see http://tinyurl.com/ybzd59d ).
While it is true the Sienna (and Tundra, and several other Toyota
models) have very high domestic content, Toyota imports at least 14
vehicles (Toyota, Lexus, Scion models) that have 0% domestic content.
No major automotive manufacturer sells a vehicle in the US with more
than 90% domestic content (domestic = US plus Canada, but not
Mexico...seems strange since NAFTA sort of created a quasi-domestic
market of US / Canada / Mexico). According to an article at
GM's overall domestic content is estimated to be 69%. Toyota is at
44%. I have no idea what percentage of the 31% of GM content that is
non-domestic comes from China, or Mexico, or Australia, or Brazil, or
Europe. I know GM builds some engines in China that are installed in
US cars. As far as I know Toyota doesn't do this yet, but they have
set up engine factories in China. So I don't see the difference. Both
companies operate in China. Both companies ship parts into and out of
China. I can't see how GM is bad for doing this and Toyota isn't as
well. I don't at all like the way things are going with respect to
China. However, I can't see how you can separate how China is
operating now from how the Japanese and then the Koreans have run
their car industries over the last 60 years. You might find it
interesting to look at how the Europeans felt about GM and Ford in the
early parts of the last century. Or you might want to investigate how
the Japanese government treated Ford and GM operations in Japan over
the years. There is no level playing field when you are dealing with
the Japanese or the Koreans, or the Chinese, or the French, or
I have no idea. Could you answer that question for GM? I am sure both
GM and Toyota buy parts in China. I have no idea of the percentage.
Denso (the captive Toyota parts supplier) has opened many component
factories in China (and Thailand, and Indonesia, and India). Do you
think Toyota doesn't take advantage of low cost suppliers? Do you
think Toyota has some inherent bias against operating in China? If so,
then why set up factories in China?
but you do about toyota? yeah, right.
and only one does so specifically for the american market and american
how odd - toyota buys up to 85% of componentry for it's american-made
vehicles from AMERICAN SUPPLIERS. if they can do that and make a
profit, why can't gm? it's not like gm don't make their european
vehicles with european components and make a profit - and that's much
higher cost environment than here.
er, so it can sell to the chinese market because china won't allow
not wanting to get ripped off is "insane"? daring to point out the
simple fact that taxpayers are supporting a company that is shipping
their jobs overseas is "insane"?
au contraire my friend - the astroturfing ethicsless shill that expects
to show up and bullshit all the people all the time is insane.
Toyota took advantage of the cash for clunkers program and the hybrid
car rebates to sell cars in the US. Many of the cars have no domestic
content (for instance, the Prius). Various US state and local
government have provided tax and other incentives (including cash) to
Toyota to attract manufacturing plants. Aren't these cases of Toyota
using US taxpayer money? And while in many cases the US Toyota plants
do generate new jobs, aren't they counter-balanced by jobs loses at GM
plants? How many US jobs were lost becasue Toyota decided to shut down
the NUMMI plant? If Toyota was so interested in creating US jobs,
wouldn' they have kept that plant going?
And you know this how? It is illogical to think that Toyota and Denso
have set up factories and joint ventures all over China and that they
aren't taking advantage of these low cost suppliers.
I am not trying to defend the Chinese. Most of the negative things you
say about the Chinese government (as opposed to individual workers)
is true. I'd rather we not do buisness with the Chinese. I am just
pointing out that you are a huge hyporite for attacking GM and
ignoring Toyota when it is certain that they are doing exactly the
same sorts of things when it comes to purchasing componets form the
lowest cost suppliers, including Chinese suppliers. Even if Toyota
doesn't import a single componet from China (which is not possible)
then they are still working with the Chinese and creating jobs in
China and building induistries in China that will eventually compete
with the rest of the world. Damn the difference between what GM is
doing in China and what Toyota is doing in China. Your attempts to
igonore this tells me you don't really care about GM sourcing parts in
China, it is just an issue you have siezed on in an effort to tar GM.
You hate GM and are just looking for reason to spread the hate. Just
stop using attacks on me as a medium for spreading your hate of GM. If
you want to attack GM, open a separate thread in the GM group and quit
trying to use a defense of Toyota as a means of launching your attacks
on GM. Defend Toyota based on the facts related to Toytoa. Don't
defend Toyota by saying I hate GM, so Toyota must be good.
Granted. For certain you make no sense to me. It makes no sense that
you defend Toyota while attacking GM over the doemstic content issue.
No matter how your want to look at things, GM still has a much higher
average domestic content than Toyota and employs far more American
workers than Toyota. My assumption is that you were in some way
injured by GM and that your hate of GM is preventing you from seeing
the illogic of your attacks.
When I first read about NUMMI, it seemed that Toyota got into this
thing as an accomodation to GM. When GM folded, there was no
reason to continue, this most expensive manufacturing site in America.
I could be wrong. If GM had no alternative, then neither did Toyota.
I had hoped that GM would learn why Toyota was able to sell its Corolla from
NUMMI (I'm driving one) for $1000 or so more than the Geo Prism that came
down the same line and was worked on by the same workers. They didn't.
A relative has had a Prism for many years. Good car.
I had hoped that consumers would learn not to pay $1000 more for the
Corolla. They didn't.
Resale is better for the Toyota if sold still young.
But when you get north of 100k miles it starts turning into a net loser
on that score.
You can run numbers on kbb.com.
Believe the numbers or not. But many private buyers/sellers use kbb to
set the starting bargaining price for a used car.
Bottom line is once a car is +10 years old and +100k miles the kbb
resale value difference for Corollas and Prizms begins to merge,
going below the $1000 initial Corolla premium mentioned.
So if you intend to drive your car beyond those years/miles The Corolla
offers no advantage. Unless you just need the Corolla label for
Buying a 5 year old Corolla instead of a Prizm was always a sucker play.
And according to my relative she saved close to $2000 buying the Prizm
over the Corolla when she bought it new. But I don't know the truth,
what rebates, etc were offered.
People often lie about cars, even relatives.
I do know it's a '95 Geo Prizm and last time I drove it it had about
150k miles and ran and drove well. She takes it to a Toyota dealer for
gm's manufacturing facilities in germany are considerably more expensive
than any they operate here. more expensive labor [MUCH more powerful
unions], components, logistics, etc. yet gm are able to make a profit
on those operations. odd how they say they're unable to do so here.
Are you sure about that? I keep reading how much money Opel has been
"GM is seeking 1.8 billion euros ($2.4 billion) in loans or loan
guarantees from countries with Opel/Vauxhall plants towards the cost
of a 3.7 billion euro restructuring to return the money-losing unit to
profit in 2012.
"So far the UK has pledged 300 million euros. Spain and Poland are
still considering GM's request.
"GM is seeking about 1 billion euros from Germany where Opel and half
of GM's European workforce are based.
"The U.S. automaker said earlier this month it would provide 1.9
billion euros in equity and loans to Opel, tripling its funding and
cutting its request for state aid in a bid to win over European
"Opel plans to cut 8,300 jobs in factories across Europe, shutter a
factory in Antwerp, Belgium and reduce production capacity by 20
ed, you know about politics, right? [of course you do!] you know about
international accounting consolidations, right? you know that you can
expense in one country and profit in another don't you ed? and why the
FUCK would you borrow money on the commercial markets when you can crank
the government cash lever and get money given to you with just a few
well orchestrated press releases and astroturf campaigns?
Those of you who buy into this coverage being "pro-Toyota" and "anti-
GM" are delusional and have you head in the sand. Listen to it again
without you instinctual bias flaming and you will realize the story
stands on its own and is a fine and objective piece of journalism.
Your attitude undermines the US economy as we lose the new jobs battle
to China and the other economies for true green technology developing
It's a very good piece of journalism. I find it different in that the
style of the show is different than other "This American Life" Episodes.
I think its objectivity is limited. The story that it tells is the story
of the people who worked for NUMMI, GM and Toyota (at NUMMI and other
facilities in the US and Japan). To me, I don't think that the show was
about being anti-GM or pro-Toyota, but rather, just to tell the stories
of the people.
Motorsforum.com is a website by car enthusiasts for car enthusiasts. It is not affiliated with any of the car or spare part manufacturers or car dealers discussed here.
All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.