Re: Challenge every Red Light Camera Ticket!

Lockheed Martin puts in all those fancy $100,000 signal lights and splits

> the revenue flow from all the tickets. > > These signal lights are supposed to cut down on violators, but in > actuality, they create violations. This is because the yellow light > interval is short-cycled on purpose to increase the number of red light > runners. Since the advent of these automated ticket generators, the > yellow > light interval has been dangerously shortened. > > As the yellow is shortened, the "go", "no go", decision is narrowed. > Drivers are supposed to treat the yellow as a green if they are too close > to the intersection to make a normal stop. They are supposed to treat the > yellow as a red if they can make a normal stop. If the yellow is > shortened > enough, the yellow will trap every driver into either entering an > intersection on a red and being ticketed or making a panic stop and risk > being rear-ended. For that reason, there are tables and recommendations > for timing the yellow. > > Ideally, the yellow should be 3 seconds minimum for a posted 30 mph zone, > with an additional 1 second for every 10 mph. Say you have a posted 50 > mph > zone. The yellow should be 5 seconds. With a red clearance interval of > one second, whereby the intersection is blocked by red signals in both > directions, the total safety clearance time is 6 seconds. This describes > a > safetly timed intersection. Traffic experts will attest to this formula. > > Lockheed Martin recklessly disregards these safe times and routinely times > their signals for a 3 second yellow on 50 mph roads. You will typically > see skid marks at these intersections, attesting to their danger caused by > drivers making panic stops to avoid being nailed by a red. It is not to > the pecuniary advantage of Lockheed Martin to time intersections according > to a safe formula because then, only deliberate red light runners will be > ticketed. To make their venture into the cash cow it is, they time the > lights to trap careful drivers who follow the rules of the road, but are > victimized by slowing reflexes or even worse, the laws of physics. Even > worse then having to pay unjust tickets, accidents have been caused by > these very lights promoted in the name of reducing just such accidents. > > If you are involved in an accident at one of these short cycled > intersections, bring Lockheed Martin into court and make them face the > music. The net has a lot of data to support the assertions made above. > If > you are ticketed, you need to also supeona Lockheed Martin officials and > any officials that made the decision to set you up for an unwarranted > ticket. Any reasonable judge should dismiss your case if you can show > deliberate disregard for timing standards. > > Class action lawyers might give this some consideration. Possibly > hundreds > of thousands of tickets could be reversed with all such fines returned > along with claims filed for consequential damage such as jacked-up > insurance rates.

Lockheed Martin puts in ALL those 100K $ signals? I GUESS you mean the ones with the cameras on them? I see them go up in my city pretty regular now. I always see a CITY truck and workers doing it. If the city buys this crap from Lockheed Martin that just goes to show you how stupid and the "money is no object" attitude government has. I mean really, it takes a company like Lockheed Martin to develope and sell this??? And it takes small goverments to buy it? Morons.....Anyway, I like them....I am getting sick and tired of having to drive defensively just to get through a GREEN light. I was on my motorcycle one day and a guy in a motorhome tryed to kill me and all I was doing was leaving the intersection when the light turned green. The dumbass didnt even slow down. I was so surprized I looked twice at the light to see if *I* ran it red....The others (and him) were turning in front of me on the green, there was a big gap in vehicles, then BAM, theres a motorhome turning right in front of me running the red light big time.....Like I said, I like the cameras......it makes those morons stop at a red light for once, and not just gun it when its good and yellow.

Reply to
Scott M
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I agree there are some real morons driving out there today. Bring on the cameras.

Reply to
noname

There was a big stink in the news last year of short yellows when cameras were installed. News people checked and they were not short compared to lights without cameras. People just don't like getting tickets.

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Reply to
Art

Yes there are morons out there but the cameras have to be properly implemented not to have a *negative* impact on safety. Shorter yellow lights make an intersection less safe. Unfortunately shortened yellows also make money for the local gov't.

nate

Reply to
Nate Nagel

Especially tickets for driving in a reasonable manner. I would think that that falls under the category of "things so obvious that they don't really need to be said."

nate

Reply to
Nate Nagel

Yep... if it were true. But it isn't.

Reply to
Art

as my friend's dad told us once (he was a long time MPD man)

if the light turns from yellow to red while you're in the intersection, other than turning left, or if you speed up, regardless of whether or not you're below the speed limit, you've run the red light.

Here in St paul they're putting yellow light countdown timers on our street (a busy 4 lane) to help forestall some redlighters.

Trouble is, most the people running red on my street are doing 40+ in a 30 mph zone, with 3 schools within 2 blocks of us, so I've not much sympathy with them as the SPPD has a constant speedtrap at the Middle School 1/2 block from our house. Seen too many accidents by idiots running the light at 50 or more to have any remorse if they get killed, but the poor saps they hit and the couple of kids they've killed get all my sympathy...

Dave

Mir welle bleiwe wat mir sin (Letzebuergesch)

Reply to
munir fi Taiara Amudia

My understanding about yellow lights (and what seems to be regarded by the courts) is if you are "beyond the point of no return". Specifically, if, at the speed limit, you cannot stop behind the white line from where you are then you may proceed, otherwise it's regarded as running the red.

My issues with the camera's isn't their existence or their use at red lights (I'm all for it esp in disputes with insurance companies). It is more that police that would otherwise be used to ensure save roads by monitoring high risk intersections are instead doing radar duty on Highways & bi ways. That's the real revenue raiser for the gov't.

The police in my area don't do radar duty on the stretches of highways were the most accidents are (too dangerous to get out) they take the open, clear, safe sections. Is this really what we are paying them for?

On the issue of Speed camera's..... I'll just say look to the UK & what a F&cking mess it is there with their speed camera's. Pure "taxation by other methods". That's the concern in the US, that they will follow England's lead in that area.

Reply to
Full_Name

I have been told that if you are under a light and it turns red, you have an obligation to continue through. So that should not be considered running a light.

About the cameras, I think it is pretty ghey. It will end up causing more trouble and headaches than it will good.

Reply to
twins0203

True for some, but not for others. You have to check them because the folks who set them up have a lot of profit in mind when they do so.

-------------- Alex

Reply to
Alex Rodriguez

What's more, checking the yellow-light duration at intersections with cameras against that at intersections without cameras isn't the right way to do it. It's common for a local red-light running problem to be entirely due to insufficient yellow-light duration at ALL intersections. In such cases, increasing the YLD frequently causes red light violations to plummet dramatically--but it doesn't bring in the $$$$$ like red-light cameras.

Reply to
Daniel J. Stern

It is true. There are guidelines that have to be followed when setting up the timing for intersections. You may want to take a peek at 'The Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices'. The guidelines are based on many years worth of data. If followed, you end up with a safer road. Not following the guidelines leads to dangerous road conditions. Not following the guidelines also allows unscrupulous companies to make money selling red light cameras, so they will compromise safety to make more money.

--------------- Alex

Reply to
Alex Rodriguez

"noname" wrote in news:A_d4d.2$ snipped-for-privacy@newsfe07.lga.highwinds-media.com:

Well welcome to the Nanny state. I am glad you have no historical facts on freedom and responsibality. It is a direct afront to our fore fathers that such a unmaned automatic ticket machine is ok with you. Don`t be bitching when they come for your phone, computer, TV and any other thing you might do something illegal on. enjoy you monitored life. KB

Reply to
Kevin Bottorff

you are both morons.. those that run reds, will still run them. even with a shorter yellow interval.

same mentality with tail-gaters... they don't think they are tail-gating.

the shorter yellow will cause inconsistencies in driving habits until one gets used to it.

i prefer unmarked traffic police vehicles...

-a|ex

Reply to
127.0.0.1

unmarked cop cars are cowardly imo

Reply to
twins0203

Ditto

Reply to
Full_Name

the cops are great but never there to see it. Sorry but your wrong. I see it every day at 2 intersections I go through. It funny, people actually stop when they know theres a camera.....

Reply to
Scott M

Real chickenshit tactics is the police helicopter with radar, I can't believe they waste THOUSANDS to keep it aloft to catch a few speeders.

Radar camera tickets I just throw in the trash, if it isnt certified mail it doesn't count.

Just don't stop for the next unmarked police car that pulls up behind you with their lights on, keep driving, wait till a marked car gets behind you, and THEN pull over. Who knows, it could be any idiot with some blue and red strobes flashing his high beams at you to get you to pull over and then carjack you. Tell them exactly that, not much they can do. Plus your making them spend even more money on you.

Reply to
Paradox

Yes to the cameras. It's time for those red light running folks who think their time is more valuable than others time and safety to get what they have coming. I mean, you want to bitch slap them but you can't. I love it when they get ticketed.

I choose not to buy into the claims about unsafe timing, because it is only that, a claim. Anyone can say anything. What I do know for a fact though, is that intersections without cameras have plenty of red light running, and I think that is far more unsafe than the yellow timing issue.

Reply to
SgtSilicon
20 gazillion lines of quoted thread deleted, due the fact that we have already read those messages.

You are a fool. Using automation to observe what is perfectly legal and desirable for police to observe is effective and efficient. It aint big brother to watch for violations in public spaces. I'm against violations of privacy, but this isn't it. You just don't like not being able to get away with what you shouldn't be doing. I'm glad for that.

Reply to
SgtSilicon

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