Why should Buicks be more reliable than other GMs?

Cars that cost more money are usually built with better materials or more emphasis goes into those materials.For Example, we will compare the trunk compartment of three cars from my family.

1989 Chevy Cavalier Z - 24 Convertible 1991 Cadillac Brougham De Elegance 1991 Pontiac Bonneville

The 89 Chevy had a black " Felt like " material covering the steel trunk floor and a portion of the inner wheel wells. The piece covering the trunk floor slid all over the place and would end up balled up in the corner from heavy items sliding around in the trunk. A piece of carboard was pressed in behind the backseat. There was nothing covering the rear quarter panels to protect them. A black piece of fibreboard covers the spare tire well.

The 91 Bonneville has thick sound deadning material on top of the trunk floor and is topped by a grey, slightly heavier weight felt like material. A piece of cardboard is pressed in behind the backseat. The wheel wells, tail panel and quarter panels are covered by a form- fitting carpet like material. A formed plastic cover covers the spare tire well. The inside of the trunk lid has a carpet - lined fiberglass trunk lid liner.

The 91 Cadillac has thick sound deadning material on the floor of the trunk and is topped by a heavy weight carpet. There is a full width two-sided matt, one side is rubberized, the other side is carpeted. and that sits on top of the carpet. The quarter panels and wheel wells are covered with a heavy weight carpeted carboard with sound deadning material attatched to the back side to block out road noise. The spare tire ( exposed ) sits up on a slight ledge and has a carpeted covering. and behind the tire is a small piece of heavy weight carb board behind the rear seat. There is also an automoatic power pull down for the trunk lid.

More sound deadning materials are used behind the Cadillac door panels, in the roof, under the dash. etc where a less expensive car wouldn't have such materials

The Bonneville and Cadillac also have a plastic sheet glued to the inner door to act as a water barrier, whereas the Cavalier had a piece of heavy black paper glued to the inner door.

This is just one example of how different materials can be applied to different models. Other manufacturers do the same thing with their different models.

========= Harryface =========

1991 Pontiac Bonneville LE ~_~_~270,000 miles_~_~_

Primarily because Consumer Reports, Sucks. If you go through about half of their reporting and then compare the items rated you find a Lot of OOPS. For instance they were rating Domestic Trucks in one issue. Ford, Dodge GMC and Chevy were all in there. The two GM rigs were rated almost as different from each other as they were from the Ford and Dodge. Real good job considering they are the EXACT same truck built on the same line. Or the time I read how great the Suzuki Swift was compared to a Geo, which were also the same car. They do it all the time and it seems that anything with a foreign name gets rated higher than domestic items.

I subscribed to CR for 15 years and finally realized that they didn't know what they were talking about. I bought some of the items that they had listed as "best buy" and was never more dissapointed. One item (an electric mixer) failed wthin 6 months of purchase. Their love of everything imported puzzles me and BTW have you noticed that most of their staff speak with foreign accents? Makes you wonder.

I've noticed that in other, more neutral, reports as well. My theory is that perhaps the typical Buick buyer doesn't put too many miles on them...

Chevrolet and Pontiac lack the larger engines in general and have fewer features. The Cadillacs are overpriced and full of electronics that cna break. Oldsmobile was merged into Buick(finally!).

CR's criteria is based upon the needs for a typical surburbanite midwestern family. Every other need or type of person - the magazine is nearly worthles.

GM, otoh, makes no good, affordable SUVs.

My old LeSabre has this same deal. Vacuums up real nice. :)

Buicks are good because they get most of the features of the Cadillacs but none of the frills and extra cost. The sound deadening and carpets and such are identical in both lines from what I can tell - at least in the LeSabre and Park Avenue.

The LeSabre Limited is a superb car because it sells for about $27K after rebates. Maybe $2K more for options, but it's pretty nice in its base form.

That's a 205hp 6 passenger car with leather, ABS, and so on. The only other car that competes for the power/space/price is the Avalon. You either have to go smaller like an Accord V6 or jump to luxury cars if you want a full-sized V6 other than these two.

Well, the Ford Crown Vic(in various labels) also competes, but isn't nearly as reliable.

The Custom is $22.5K after rebates. That's amazingly inexpensive considering the engine is identical to the more expensive model. I don't think you can get Camry V6 for instance, for that little money. Me? I'd get the Custom and option it out as On-Star and alloy wheels and such aren't really important.

The OP that was interested in a Buick - he should look at the Avalon as well. It's basically a Lexus minus the plushness. More reliable than the Buick or Mercedes, actually - a fine car and under $30K out the door.

The reason the Swift was rated higher, IIRC, was because it had a few more available features as well as optional ABS.

There is a great discussion about CR and their biased reports going on over in rec.autos.makers.chrysler.

See the "minvan comparison" thread.

psycho

I nearly died laughing when they tested home loudspeakers in an anechoic chamber and assigned an "accuracy" score based on a frequency sweep and a calibrated microphone picking up the sound.

Only problem with that method is that loudspeakers are not designed to be listened to in anechoic chambers but in normal living rooms.

BTW at that time the Bose 901 speakers were top rated and anyone in the audio inductry will tell you that they sound terrible.

psycho

Actually that would be:

Plymouth Horizon----->>> Dodge Omni Plymouth Reliant----->Dode Aries

I know what you are saying though and I agree.

psycho

The LeSabre and Avalon are both reliable vehicles but so are the Crown Victoria and Grand Marquis very reliable cars, that MORE than compete with the LeSabre or the Avalon. They have more room inside, a bigger trunk and a sweet 240 HP 4.6L V8 engine. Fully loaded with leather and all the bells and whistles for a MSRP of only 25K. Current rebates are up to $4,500. Some well equipped lessor models are available under 18K, with rebates.

EPA fuel figures for each;

Model Engine CAFE Avg. fuel cost LeSabre 3.8 V6 20/29 $1,011 Avalon 3.0 V6 21/29 $ 970 Crown Victoria 4.6 V8 18/26 $1,162

If I were in the market I would at least drive and price one of them before deciding on any lesser V6 car.

mike hunt

Joseph Oberlander wrote:

I stopped buying CR way back in the late seventies when they said the Plymouth Reliant was a better car than the Dodge Omni. SAME car, different grill.

mike hunt

Joseph Oberlander wrote:

Because old people drive them, and would tend to take care of them better because they would stick to the scheduled maintenance that the service advisors tell them to do. plus they dont abuse their cars, gun them race them etc...

HAHA....you should see my gramps, he has a 2001 LeSabre and a 2004 Sierra, you should see how many times he guns it and races people. One time coming home from our farm he hit ~110 to cut someone off that cut him off and there's always at least one thing like that every trip. In his Sierra the first 10 minutes he had it he already gunned it to not let some guy cut him off. All he does are the oil/filter changes too.

I'm thinking of buying a USED Buick for my next car, not a new one. The limited availability of ABS on new base Toyota Corollas and the lack of ABS on new base Honda Civics give me reservations. I'm not about to spend $14K on a car that lacks ABS or pay $3K more just to get them. (I'm hoping this changes in the 2005 model year.)

On the other hand, antilock brakes have been standard on even base-level Buicks and Saturns for years. Buicks depreciate very rapidly, and I'm hoping this can be attributed to the shrinking market for them rather than any quality issues. According to Edmunds, a

3-year-old LeSabre is about $11K on the private market, and a 3-year-old Century is about $8K on the private market. The LeSabre has the advantage of the 3800 V6 that everyone on this group considers ultra-reliable. According to this group's consensus, the 3.1L V6 in the Century is decent but not the greatest.

I don't care about prestige, leather seats, luxury, plushness, performance, styling, or image. I just want my next car to be reasonably reliable, safe, and economical. Believe me, if I wanted an SUV, and a new Pontiac Aztek were safe enough, reliable enough, and priced at only $10K, I wouldn't hesitate to buy one.

Jason Hsu, AG4DG usenet AAATTT jasonhsu.com

Why should engine size and features affect reliability survey results? That can't be the reason Chevrolets and Pontiacs have poorer CR repair records than Buick. If anything, Chevrolets should be the most reliable (or least unreliable) because there are fewer gadgets to break.

And how could Buick fare better than Oldsmobile in CR's reliability surveys? Weren't Oldsmobiles Buick clones? Didn't GM get rid of Oldsmobile because it was too much like Buick?

Jason Hsu, AG4DG usenet AAATTT jasonhsu.com

All three are nice deals, actually. Why pay $35K for a Volvo with a tiny engine?

I still someday want a Grand National. Heh.

Buick occasionally makes a kick-ass car.

Oh - LeSabre and Crown Vic are *superb* used values. Depreciate fast, and yet are good, solid values. Toyota and Honda are very poor used, as they retain too much value to be a bargain.

My parents bought 3-4 year old Buicks for 8-12K for decades. Surburbans and Yuknos also drop in value fast the first few years.

The LeSabre

The 3300 is great. Replaces the 3100. Basically, it's equal to the original 3800 II in power and torque(about 170-180hp) but gets 2mpg better as well as being a hundred pounds or so lighter.

Never understood SUVs - a nice large car is just as safe and a TON easier to drive.