Hello,
Does anyone know for sure if a 2009 Buick LaCrosse is included in that windshield washer fluid heater recall ?
Can't get a straight answer out of the kid who answers the phone at the local Dealership.
Thanks, B.
"Bob" wrote in message news:hunu3t$ko4$ snipped-for-privacy@news.eternal-september.org...
The GM website does not mention the Bucik LaCrosse in the recall notification. NHTSA does not include the 2009 LaCrosse in new the recall either. It does mention other 2007-2009 Buicks, so I am surprised your vehicle is not included if you have the feature.
You can search for recalls at
BUICK / LUCERNE 2006-2009
CADILLAC / CTS 2008-2009
CADILLAC / DTS 2006-2009
CADILLAC / ESCALADE 2007-2009
CADILLAC / ESCALADE ESV 2007-2009
CADILLAC / ESCALADE EXT 2007-2009
CHEVROLET / AVALANCHE 2007-2009
CHEVROLET / SILVERADO 3500 2007-2009
CHEVROLET / SUBURBAN 2007-2009
CHEVROLET / TAHOE 2007-2009
CHEVROLET / TRAVERSE 2009
GMC / ACADIA 2007-2009
GMC / SIERRA 2007-2009
GMC / YUKON 2007-2009
GMC / YUKON XL 2007-2009
HUMMER / H2 2006-2009
SATURN / OUTLOOK 2007-2009
Manufacturer: GENERAL MOTORS CORP. Mfr's Report Date: JUN
04, 2010 NHTSA CAMPAIGN ID Number: 10V240000 N/A NHTSA Action Number: N/AComponent: ELECTRICAL SYSTEM Potential Number of Units Affected: 1365070 Summary: GM IS RECALLING CERTAIN MODEL YEAR 2006-2009 BUICK, LUCERNE; CADILLAC DTS; HUMMER H2; MODEL YEAR 2008-2009 BUICK ENCLAVE; CADILLAC CTS; MODEL YEAR 2007-2009 CADILLAC ESCALADE, ESCALADE ESV, ESCALADE EXT; CHEVROLET AVALANCHE, SILVERADO, SUBURBAN, TAHOE; GMC ACADIA, SIERRA, YUKON, YUKON XL; SATURN OUTLOOK; AND MODEL YEAR 2009 CHEVROLET TRAVERSE VEHICLES EQUIPPED WITH A HEATED WASHER FLUID SYSTEM (HWFS). A RECALL WAS IMPLEMENTED IN 2008 TO ADD A FUSE TO THE CONTROL CIRCUIT HARNESS TO ADDRESS THE POTENTIAL CONSEQUENCES OF A PRINTED CIRCUIT BOARD (PCB) ELECTRICAL SHORT. HOWEVER, THERE HAVE BEEN NEW REPORTS OF THERMAL INCIDENTS ON HWFS MODULES AFTER THIS IMPROVEMENT WAS INSTALLED. THESE INCIDENTS RESULTED FROM A NEW FAILURE MODE ATTRIBUTED TO THE DEVICE'S THERMAL PROTECTION FEATURE. THE SIGNIFICANCE VARIES FROM MINOR DISTORTION TO CONSIDERABLE MELTING OF THE PLASTIC AROUND THE HWFS FLUID CHAMBER. Consequence: IT IS POSSIBLE FOR THE HEATED WASHER MODULE TO IGNITE AND A FIRE MAY OCCUR. Remedy: DEALERS WILL PERMANENTLY DISABLE AND REMOVE THE HEATED WASHER FLUID MODULE. AN UPDATED PAGE FOR THE OWNER MANUAL WILL BE PROVIDED AND INSERTED IN THE OWNER MANUAL TO DOCUMENT THAT THE FEATURE HAS BEEN PERMANENTLY DISABLED AND REMOVED FROM THE VEHICLE. THE SAFETY RECALL IS EXPECTED TO BEGIN ON OR BEFORE JUNE 11, 2010. OWNERS MAY CONTACT BUICK AT 1-866-608-8080, CADILLAC AT 1-866-982-2339, CHEVROLET AT
1-800-630-2438, SATURN AT 1-800-972-8876, GMC AT 1-866-996-9463 AND HUMMER AT 1-800-732-5493 OR AT THE OWNER CENTER ATEd
So it really looks like they are not going to fix it, just disable it. So not a fix, just turn it off.
If he has the feature, could be he has the problem. Would not be the first time GM or NHTSA fowled up on data entry, in their favor of course.
"Canuck57" wrote
That's OK. They are giving you money back right? Since it is a feature you pair to have, it should be repaired, replaced, or refunded.
I'm curious why they have *electric* heated wiper nozzles anyway. Why not just wrap a coil of hard tubing around one of the heater hoses and call it soup? KISS!
nate
When are you most likely to need heated wiper fluid? I know I'd love to have heated washer fluid when I first drive off on a very cold morning, before the heater is working. Even when I scrap the windshield, frost often reforms on the windshield once I start moving. Spraying cold fuid on the windshield usually makes visibility worse. I think heated fluid would be great at that time. Of course the best fix is the electrically heated windshield. I had one once, and wish they were still commonly available. It was great.
Ed
On Thu, 10 Jun 2010 11:30:33 -0400, "C. E. White" wrote:
If atmospheric conditions cause frost to form on the windshield the only solution is to warm up the windshield before you continue. That's a pretty rare condition, but I've seen it. I live in northern Illinois near Chicago. Driving in all weather conditions for many years. On the rare occasion I've used washers before the windshield is warm the frost evaporates real quick. I use the winter blend, which is dosed with alcohol, all year. Doesn't pay to let the stuff freeze because you change it too late, and you don't hardly use it in the summer anyway. In just about every case I mistook inside condensation for outside condensation. Still not good, so I make sure my windshield is clean before I park. Or get it clean before I start off. Then I don't have to worry about that. Can't even remember the last time it happened. I can probably count on one hand how many times my windshield frosted a bit because of cold washer fluid in +40 years of driving. And I never felt I was in danger. Doesn't feel good, but rare and easily avoided anyway. Nate's idea wouldn't work because if you don't heat it at the nozzle you'll get frosted. Besides, the heater hoses don't get hot right away. By the time they're warm the windshield should be warming up. I sure agree with the KISS though. Heating washer fluid is about the most stupid thing I ever heard of. GM is getting what they deserve for such a lame-ass idea. Nannyism at its best. Wonder if the ECU throws a code and puts the engine in closed loop when the windshield washer heater sensor detects a problem.
--Vic
"N8N" wrote
So you don't have to wait until the car is warmed up first. Some mornings the windshield will have a bit of frost on it. The newer fluids have the ability to remove a fair amount of frost with no scraping. Warm fluid would be even better. Even using the remost starter, my car is not warm enough that the engine coolant would make any difference fist time out.
Other companies have successfully offered these systems. Dont tell me that GM cant solve something so uncomplicated as this.
I wouldnt want one of them on my car in any case.
GM can't do much right at all. That is why they went bankrupt needing your tax dollars in the first place. Your politicians were pretty quick to sellout all of north america for GM ineptness. GM incompetance has been going on so long they know no other way.
Thime for a little critical thinking...
Don't you suppose that GM is buying their system from the same supplier that provide it to other companies? I do.
Do you really think GM's system is more fialure prone than the similar systems used by other companies? I don't.
Why do you suppose GM is recalling their system and other companies aren't?
I can think of two reasons - 1) GM screwed up and installed the systems in a bad location (not likely in my opinion). Or 2) GM installed the system in hundreds of thousands of vehicles and the low, but not zero, failure rate led to a significant number of failures in GM products. In the current climate GM felt the fastest, safest, cheapest solution was to just deactivate the whole mess. Toyota's solution (at least until this year) would have been 1) deny there was a problem, 2) lie to NHTSA, 3) lie some more, 4) lie a lot more, 5) blame the Customer for using the system inappropriately, 6) blame the suppleir, 7) finally offer to deactivate the system out of the goodness of their heart, 8) sit back while their shills claim this is another outstanding example of Toyota's fabulous Customer service, 9) run ten thousand commercials mentioning the mysterious Toyota Safety System (really just a bunch of BS advertising copy meant to obsure the facts).
In my mind the biggest difference between Toyota and GM is that Toyota has better liars and can hide behind the Japanese government.
Ed
I dont know where they get it...and really dont care..For all I know, they designed it and had some subcontracter build it.
If they cannot deploy it functionally and safely, it says something about their foresight and ability to build a car and the subsystems that they themselves choose.
If another car manufacturer has the same de-call, we can revisit the story.
The biggest difference has always been concentrating good engineering on a few mass market cars that will make you money because they don't nickel and dime consumers to death by spreading engineering resources too thin. And those different directions are conscious decisions, not accidents. The corporate philosophies were totally different. Solid engineering steak versus sizzle. That may be changing now. Because Toyota won the war. But they all lie. Difference is how many times you have to do it. The washer fluid heating system company is now bankrupt. GM is deactivating/removing the junk and giving customers $100. The first recall for this crap they tried to fix it with a wire harness and fusing. Don't know what Toyota is doing with the Corollas in Japan which has the same junk put in them. Daihatsu fell for it too.
--Vic
Ever notice when Toyota, or one of the other Jap auto manufacturers has a recall, the Toyota loyalist etal say that's a good thing because they take care of their customers.
When any domestic auto manufacturers has a recall it is because they were cutting corners to save a few dollars? LOL
It is helpful if you don't park your daily driver in a garage, and you live somewhere where the temp. can be above freezing during the day but below at night. Even here in DC-land, there have been days where I've had to let the car warm up for at least 10 minutes or so before the ice will come off the windshield, and anything to speed that process along is appreciated. Also appreciated are the windshield wiper arms that you can pull away from the windshield and leave them there, so the blades don't freeze to the windshield. Unfortunately my old VWs had this feature way back in 1984 if not earlier (I'm trying to remember if my '71 Porsche would do this) but while my 2008 Impala does this (finally!) the 2005 did *not.*
You'd think that being based in Detroit GM would have been cognizant of the convenience of this simple feature...
Frosting is an issue, yes, but so is coming out in the morning and finding a solid sheet of ice on your windshield. Throwing some cardboard or other material under the wipers can help, but if it's already raining when you park the car for the night there'll still be some ice there, and also that requires planning ahead, and if you think you don't need it but it ends up freezing... Honestly the best thing that I've found to help with this is using silicone wiper blades; they leave a thin film of silicone on the windshield and I can really tell the difference, ice in the wiper tracks adheres to the windshield much less tenaciously than it does to the rest of the windshield and thus is frees up sooner so there's less idling in the driveway required before you can clean off the windshield and go. (having a defroster grid on the rear window is also crucial, but I can't remember the last car I had without one - probably aforementioned '71 Porsche, and that was a 914, where the rear window was vertical and also recessed into a roll-bar type arrangement, so it wasn't needed there.)
I agree that an actual heated windshield would be best, but that causes other issues, such as blocking of radar detectors, EZPass transponders, GPS receivers, etc.
nate
Despite all the accolades, this award winning systems seems to be a pisser. I am sure we will eventually hear if Toyotas and Daihatsus have the same problem as GM, or whether they managed to tame the beast.
KISS is important. Inadequate development, IMO, on this item.
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