A/T Maintenance

Took my Accord V6, A/T, 39.000 miles in to dealer for routine "A2" maintenance and the service writer weasel said I also needed a
transmission flush.
I passed because transmission fluid replacement is a "3" in the maintenance minder. Also, the owner's manual says with severe service, it should be changed at 60,000 miles-- so I'm assuming with normal driving (my usage), fluid replacement is a good bit more than 60K.
So what is the typical mileage range for a "3" to display calling for fluid change? I'm just wondering how badly the weasel was trying to stick it to me?
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hmmmmm, "wallet" doesn't usually start with a "t"....
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On 06/19/2012 07:38 AM, Douglas C. Neidermeyer wrote:

as elmo says, the only people benefiting from any "flushing" are the shop from your wallet. honda factory [who is not the dealer who just gets paid on selling you stuff] specifically say /not/ to flush, only drain and fill.
as to mileage, it depends on the age of your vehicle. if it's one of the ones with all the transmission problems, you are definitely best advised to go with a frequent change schedule. i can't recall the problem years, and you can probably look them up just as quickly as i can, but if you have any doubts, do the drain and fill, and try to be present when the drain plug is removed. if the plug magnet is badly fouled with metal particles, you might want to consider installing an in-line filter on the oil cooler line. if not, then just make a note of the fact that the 60k schedule is going to be just fine.
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of

I agree completely with the previous posters but would add: Pull the tranny dipstick and look at the condition of the fluid. Is it dark, brown, smells burnt, and is there any indication of contaminates/bubbles etc. Your fluid condition should tell you if there is a reason to "drain and refill". I would definitely stay away from any sort of "flush". DaveD

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wrote:

To be fair:
a) Honda did have (I'm being gentle here) problematic transmissions for a number of years. V6 vehicles. Generally, the 98 through mid-04 models.
b) as jim says, Honda says specifically not to "flush"--but Honda does specify a routine for a more complete exchange of old fluid for new, should you want to do that. It's a simple drain/fill/drive cycle repeated three times.
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On 6/20/12 6:20 AM, Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:

a) It's a 2007. The most recent Consumer Reports frequency of repair stats-- based on 5 years of history-- show a less than 1% incidence of major transmission problems and a 1%-2% rate for minor problems-- so I guess I'm outside the problem range.
b) Do you recall where you saw the "don't flush" warning-- owner's manual, TSB, news article? I'd really like to read it.
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On 6/20/2012 8:14 AM, Douglas C. Neidermeyer wrote:

You can probably Google it and come up with more information than you really want.
FWIW, my own mechanic - 35+ years with dealerships and now on his own - told me several stories about the obscene profit margin to the dealers on that single facet of the business. He laughs and says it's really a great deal for the dealers and, at best, "maybe won't mess up your transmission." The fluids used for the flushing aren't all that expensive but even so, the manufacturer/distributors GIVES the expensive equipment to the dealership just to get them to buy their product, mark it up like gold, and sell it to the unsuspecting public.
Pretty much the Gillette principal. Give them the razor and sell them the blades!
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Several years ago I acquired for virtually nothing a 94 Lexus with 125K miles, with complete records. At some point the owner (one owner car) must have given the car to his wife to drive, because suddenly the service records shifted from the dealer to the corner garage.
At some point later in its life, post-100K miles, that corner garage did a transmission flush. All I can say is that a couple of weeks after I got the car, the transmission died and needed rebuilt. $2400 later, I was back in business.
That tranny ran until I got rid of the car at 175K miles.
You can bet it was the tranny flush.
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On 06/20/2012 06:14 AM, Douglas C. Neidermeyer wrote:

you might be out of the range, but, with respect, any form of reliance on "consumer reports" is simply insane.

dig through the tsb's on tegger's website.
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Reliance on some of CR's conclusions and recommendations which are often grounded in their underlying socialistic, "government regulation is good" ideology is insane-- but me drawing my own conclusions based on their presentation of substantial auto reliability data (albeit based on subscriber self-report) puts me on pretty solid ground and far from a straight-jacket wardrobe...
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And that attitude is a bit strange. CR made its name as a reliable source for unbiased, professionally-derived, consumer-protection information BEFORE there were any substantial government regulations on anything.
My dad subscribed to CR in the '50s, before CR got really political, and maintained his subscription until he died in 1977. And he never threw out any of the issues. I, myself, subscribed to CR until about 1984. I read every one of those issues.
Even in my pre-political days, I noticed over the years CR's slow change from alerting consumers to shortcomings in consumer products, and how to deal with them, to calling for government regulation of those consumer products. Essentially, CR was calling for the government to put CR out of business, the way the Mobilgas Economy Run was rendered redundant by the EPA in the '70s.

When it comes to Honda automatic transmissions, CR has it dead-on.
Whatever the reason for Honda's '98-'04 automatic troubles, Honda suffered mightily from them, and lost substantial ground to Hyundai during them. But Honda learned its lesson, and now makes automatic transmissions that are probably the very best in the industry for reliability.
--
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That's tough to prove when buyers have moved on.
Honda got what it deserved.
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On 06/21/2012 03:43 AM, Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:

tough to prove indeed - show me the hondas with the 300, 400 and 500k miles on these new transmission like the generations from the late 80's and early 90's would routinely do, then we can call them "reliable".

or what their trojan horse management wanted...
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From the February 2006 issue of "Honda Service News", the publication produced by Honda for its franchised American dealers (the Canadian edition is called "Shop Talk", or "Le Talk du Shop", in French):
Flush Systems: A Big Taboo -------------------------- In Honda vehicles, the transmission, as well as the systems that handle lubrication, cooling, fuel, and power steering, are designed to give thousands of miles of trouble-free service if you follow the maintenance schedule to the letter. Flush systems are a popular aftermarket offering these days. These products look impressive and make lots of claims, but American Honda strongly recommends you avoid using them on any Honda vehicle. Heres why: The maintenance schedule neither requires nor approves of aftermarket flush systems. Flush systems take time to do; this adds to your service customers wait time. Flush systems havent demonstrated an improvement in vehicle performance or reliability. Flush systems using solvents may leave solvent in the system youre flushing. This will dilute the fluid or lubricant and degrade its performance. Flush systems using filters can filter out vital additives and degrade the fluids or lubricants performance. This is particularly true for coolant. Any damage caused by flush systems isnt covered by warranty.
PS: I might have made up the French name for the Canadian edition...
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Thanks for the text and cite.
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On 6/20/2012 6:12 PM, Tegger wrote:

> ...
Do you also have something official from Honda about how to store a car for 2-3 months and then restart it again without any damage to the car?
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Not that I can find. Storage of a Honda would be no different from any other car.
Generally speaking, for short-term storage of 3-months, you shouldn't need to do any more than change the oil and make sure the engine is good and hot when the car is parked.
If the car is newer than 1995, you should put a trickle-charger on the battery to keep it from going dead during its idleness. If you can't put a charger on it, you can disconnect the negative cable, but there are cautions which go with that approach.
--
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On 6/22/2012 1:19 PM, Tegger wrote:

Well, I don't know the procedure for other cars, either.

What do you mean the engine being hot? Every parking starts with a hot engine, right? (Unless the car is towed to the parking place, that is.)

I was concerned mainly about starting the engine after its injection system dried out during months of non-use. (I remember the carb days when I had to spray some carb fuel into the dry carb throttle to get it started after long storage.)
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I meant the difference between running it for 5 minutes and driving it for a half-hour. The 5-minutes is bad; the half-hour is good.

Won't happen. I've pulled injectors from cars that have been sitting for years, to discover that they were still wet with gas.
Make sure the tires are properly inflated, change the oil, top-off the gas tank, drive the car for at least a half-hour, then park it out of the weather. Other than putting a charger on the battery, that's it.
And don't bother with having somebody start the engine every so often. There's no real benefit to that for just 3-month's idleness.
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On 6/23/2012 1:29 AM, Tegger wrote:

Thanks, for the clarification. Makes sense.

I seem to remember from an old article that recommended to keep the car on some blocks so its weight is not on the tires to avoid permanent deformation in their prophile. Is this now also an old wife's tale if the tires are inflated properly?
I suppose in case of a '94 Accord a simple battery disconnect will also be OK.

The fresh oil at recommissioning of the car might be a problem if I first have to drive it to a shop to change the oil though.
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