AZ Nomad wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@ip70-176-155-130.ph.ph.cox.net:
Shush. I want "Obveeus" to answer my question according to his own definition. That definition will surely be different from the dictionary one, which is why I want him to define it himself.
Try reading it slowly - it isn't that complicated.
Well you seem to decipher some of it just fine. The age of the oil isn't going to prevent a leak if that is what your thinking was said. The point was the age of the oil can make a difference in some situations. A fairly small amount of glycol added to dirty oil can do damage where that same amount added to engine with fresh oil can avoid the damage. One of the consequences of adding the small amount of antifreeze is that it will rob from the dispersants and detergents their power to hold fine particles in suspension. That won't matter as much if the oil is not very saturated with fine particles.
The point is it is inaccurate to say there is zero risk to storing the fine particles suspended in the oil. You can if you want debate how small the risk is.
-jim
jim wrote in news:j-6dnb2sTIiJby7WnZ2dnUVZ snipped-for-privacy@bright.net:
Try writing more clearly. I don't care to wade repeatedly through lousy writing; I have to do enough of that at work.
Causes of Car Paint Peeling
There are normally three layers of coatings on a modern automobile: primer, paint, and the clear coat. The primer acts as a base layer for the paint, assisting with adhesion, provides a predictable surface for coating, and provides additional protection for the underlying metal. The paint is the color coat. The clear coat provides a hard "shell" that protects the paint from oxidization, minor scratches, and increases the longevity of the aesthetic benefits of the colored paint. Car paint peeling (delamination) occurs when one or more of these layers lose adhesion with the surface under it. Primer may lose adhesion to the bare metal, paint may lose adhesion to the primer, and the clear coat can lose adhesion to the paint. When this happens, large sections or flakes of paint can slough off the vehicle.
There are two primary causes for car paint peeling. The first, and most often associated with large-scale paint delamination, is the improper preparation of the painted surface. All three major domestic manufacturers have had paint problems in the late-1980's through the mid-1990's due to changes in painting processes which resulted in the failure of either the primer, paint, or clear coat.
The second most common cause of paint delamination happens when the seal of the clear coat, paint, or primer get compromised by a chip or scratch. Once the barrier has been compromised, moisture and other contaminants can begin working their way under the coatings and create a starting point for delamination. There are reported instances where a small chip in the clear coat has caused catastrophic adhesion loss to the clear coat when the vehicle was pressure washed. The pressurized water gets under the coating and quite literally blows off hard, brittle shell of the clear coat. However, this scale of clear coat failure due to a chip is rare, and is indicative of other quality issues with the paint.
On 3/31/2010 6:21 PM Vic Smith spake these words of knowledge:
No. Not anyone. Just shitbags like you with your attitude. And I have never been one of the most helpful people here. Nor did I claim to be one of those folks. But I have been here for years. Your reading comprehension seems to be on a level with your reasoning abilities. Shame.
Looks like you've defined what camp you're in. The ignorant, unhelpful whiners who have only negative to offer, but offer it freely.
Carry on.
And f*ck you, shitbag.
RFT!!! Dave Kelsen
I'm one of those guys who believes in 3000 mile intervals because it has always worked for me. Do I care if no one agrees with me, NO. Do I care if I can extend it to 5000 or more miles, NO. Do I claim my way is the only correct way, NO. In other words, you do what works for you and I'll do the same.
OK, you're one of those wackos who REGRETS that he washes AND SEALS his car (gee, takes ONLY three hours) ONLY every couple of weeks now.
That implies that you're down from your original schedule, which was MORE than every couple of weeks.
Then you blast others for wasting resources?
The amount of water YOU waste, and the dangerous chemicals YOU introduce into the environment (yeah, your waxes and sealears), aren't on your horizon? Or do you CONVENIENTLY choose to IGNORE your waste while blasting OTHERS for "waste" and introducing things that are "harmful to the environment" that YOU don't like?
Really? Is that how you live your life? Do as I say, not as I do?
defined by whom?
i googled for those definitions, and guess what - they all came up on iffy-lube type websites selling you 3000 mile oil changes.
bottom line - it's analysis that trumps all cant, sales, superstition or hysteria on this subject. if the analysis says you can run your oil longer, and per my original post, most people can, that's the end of the story.
yes, i'm saying no. it's illogical nonsense.
yeah, on iffy-lube websites trying to get you to go into their shop and out of your wallet every 3000 miles.
nonsense.
i keep garlic in my refrigerator because it stops elephants from standing in the butter. because it has always worked for me.
superstitious nonsense - you have absolutely zero basis in fact.
Did that statement really need to read as: 'Exposure to all the *harmful* chemicals also causes many health problems.' for you to understand it?
a. manufacturers know enough about the paints and sealers they put on their cars, and test them enough in accelerated u.v., heat, cold, etc., to know whether they're going to peel or not. peeling paint is bad for business, so they use materials that, in the normal environment, do not. paints have been with us a looooong time. people generally learn as they go along.
b. the above does NOT apply when a completely unknowable spectrum of aftermarket chemicals, solvents and abrasives are applied.
again, before quoting over-simplistic attempts to explain, apply a little logic. on vehicles with high tops that owners do not wax and polish, have you ever seen one of those peel? what is the explanation?
It is an 'if, then' statement and as such, you must understand that it is not 'nonsense'. The 'if' part may be false, though, rendering the conclusion useless. I think we agree that, the claim that people need to change their oil every 3,000 miles or on some time interval is nonsense promoted by auto repair people.
FACT: De-ionized salt works just as well.
He didn't claim any basis in fact.
He made several casual observations. I wonder which one of those statements rang true and got you so bent out of shape. I'm guessing this one:
"Some people want to feel superior, or it could be they want reinforcement of their own beliefs, because they are not sure of those beliefs."
I disagree that it is nonsense. In my 1984 AMC Eagle, those frequent oil changes were needed. In my 2008 Ford Focus, a longer interval is needed.
The 3000 mi interval was based on good info. However, now it is based on greed.
Jeff
Good info based upon old technology (oil from 25 years ago and car manufacturing from 25 years ago). Even without the 'greed' factor, the technology has changed enough that the old rules simply should not apply.
...and for the people driving the 25+ year old cars, the 'topping off what leaks out method' probably is as good as doing oil changes (though the filter probably still needs to get changed).
Good post man... Gotta love the way a little article would generate so much banter.
As for the high efficiency oil filters, what would be a good brand to go with? Is the stock honda filter a good choice to stick with?
Are you sure of that? I had a Frontier and my reading of the maual indicated that changing oil according to the "severe" scedule was open to a broad interpertation.
Here is what was in my 2006 Frontier Owners Guide:
Operation under the following conditions may require more frequent oil and filter changes:
PREMIUM MAINTENANCE* (Every 3,750 miles or 3 months, whichever comes first) Premium Maintenance is a Nissanrecommended option that is suitable for all driving habits and local conditions. Nissan developed Premium Maintenance for owners who want the ultimate in preventative maintenance. With Premium Maintenance, more maintenance items are regularly checked or replaced than with either Schedule 1 or Schedule 2 maintenance schedules.
Using the Premium Maintenance schedule may optimize the performance, reliability, and resale value of your vehicle.
SCHEDULE 1 (Every 3,750 miles or 3 months, whichever comes first)
Schedule 1 features the same 3,750-mile service intervals as Premium Maintenance; however, with Schedule 1 fewer maintenance items are regularly checked or replaced than with the Premium Maintenance schedule. Use Schedule 1 if you primarily operate your vehicle under any of these conditions:
SCHEDULE 2 (Every 7,500 miles or 6 months, whichever comes first)
Schedule 2 features 7,500-mile service intervals; with Schedule 2 fewer maintenance items are regularly checked or replaced than with Schedule 1. Generally, Schedule 2 applies only to highway driving in temperate conditions. Use Schedule 2 only if you primarily operate your vehicle under conditions other than those listed in Schedule 1.
It seems to me the wording is designed to encourage owners to use the
3,750 service interval, but really, how many people make repeated short trips of less than 5 miles? My assumption would be if you do a five mile commute, but still drive far enough at least weekly to warm the car up, this short trip requirement wouldn't apply.The stop and go driving requirement and low spped for long distance requirements are undefined. I suppose if you live in LA, then you may always be in stop and go traffic. While this might be hard on your brakes, do you really think it is all that hard on the engine oil? I suppose if you spend hours of time stopped and idling, then you need to change your oil more often. This is where a system like the GM Oil Monitor is very useful. It actually counts engine revolutions and modifies oil change intervals accordingly.
I like the Ford descriptions of Normal and Severe Service better:
Determine which maintenance schedule to follow
It's important to follow the maintenance schedule that most closely mirrors your driving habits and the conditions under which you drive. For this reason, the Scheduled Maintenance Guide is divided into two basic maintenance schedules: the Normal Schedule (further segmented into Trucks, Fullsize Vans & SUVs and Cars & CUVs) and Special Operating Conditions.
Determining which maintenance schedule is right for you is easy. For the most part, do you drive your Ford, Lincoln or Mercury vehicle under typical, everyday conditions? If so, follow the Normal Schedule Trucks, Fullsize Vans & SUVs, or Normal Schedule Cars & CUVs.
Special Operating Conditions
However, if one or more of the Special Operating Conditions outlined below better describes how you typically operate your vehicle, you will need to perform some maintenance services more often than the Normal Schedule recommends.
. Towing a trailer or carrying heavy loads . Extensive idling and/or driving at low-speeds for long distances . Driving in dusty conditions . Off-road operation . Use of E85 fuel 50% of the time or greater (flex fuel vehicles only)
Important: For further details and information regarding these Special Operating Conditions see page 42. ....
Items Needing Special Attention
If you operate your Ford/Lincoln/Mercury primarily in one of the more demanding Special Operating Conditions listed below, you will need to have some items maintained more frequently. If you only occasionally operate your vehicle under these conditions, it is not necessary to perform the additional maintenance. For specific recommendations, see your Ford or Lincoln Mercury Dealership Service Advisor or Technician.
****End Quote****Notice the statements including the words "primarily" and "occasionally." To me these implies most owners are exempt.
I think the systems like GM's (and others) that use oil life monitors that adjust the change interval based on driving patterns are the best. Toyota took an approach that at least eliminates confusion - they did away with the whole normal/severe schedule confusion by just saying to change the oil every 5000 miles. Of course all of this is just for the US. In Europe oil change intervals are generally specified to be much longer - even for Toyotas that use the same (?) engines as US Toyotas. I have had people claim this is because European specifications for oil are much better than in the US. Does this mean if I use oil that meets the European specs, I could go even longer?
Ed
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