for the guys that are into recreational oil changing...

On Mar 31, 11:34=A0am, SMS wrote: snip

Did you bother to follow JB's link and read the suggested oil change intervals he is promoting? Based on your sentence above, obviously not.

The link Dr. Beam provides indicates a 10,000 mile oil change interval for cars. It goes on to say "Mileage can be extended furthest in gasoline engines by using higher quality motor oils containing a high total base number (TBN)."

So anything less than 10,000 miles between oil changes is recreational and unnecessary according to the OP. Not 2000, not 3000, not 5000, not 7500 miles.

Obviously watching US TV has reduced your reading skills to very low level. I'll put it in terms that even a simpleton should be able to understand.

Somebody said

"These minute particles pose no danger to your engine, but they cause the oil to darken."

I responded that although that holds true most of the time there can be unusual circumstances where those fine particles do cause harm.

-jim

The guys who write /Paradise Garage/ did a great study on this several years ago. While aimed at GM 5.7L small-blocks (IIRC they did this with a Firebird), they did a good job of combining theory with practice. They also gathered some test data.

Here's the link: <

I've adopted some of their ideas for my 'vette and for a new 3.6L VVT-DI engine. The only major change I've made was changing the filter more frequently than I change the oil.

1. I use Synthetic Oil exclusively
2. I top up to the 'full' mark on the stick whenever it's about 1/2 pint down.
3. I change when the oil life computer hits 30% or it's been 10K miles.
4. I change the filter every 5K (and top up to 'full')

I performed an arbitrary change on the VVT-DI engine when it turned 2500 miles. At that point, the oil life gauge was showing 72% -- I just wanted to clear out excessive 'break-in uglies.'

Note -- neither of these engine types has a 'sludge' reputation so that wasn't a consideration. That might be a consideration for Toyota owners. YMMV

-- pj

Maybe for people who own older Toyotas, but Toyota fixed whatever was causing the problem with sludge. All of the Toyotas in my immeadiate family (3 RAV4s, a Highlander, and a 4Runner) have the automatic reminder that comes after 5000 miles, so I am not worried about sludge.

Ed

"Obveeus" wrote in news:hp28cs$hth$ snipped-for-privacy@news.eternal-september.org:

So "chemical" and "harmful" are one and the same to you?

Define "chemical".

jim wrote in news:78GdnRLH3Kn8TCnWnZ2dnUVZ snipped-for-privacy@bright.net:

Thank you for accommodating me.

That statement is much more clearly written than your previous jumble.

Clearly, the above does not say that. Why are you acting stupid?

No desire to play your little agenda game. Defining 'chemical' will in no way lead to a greater depth of dicussion on why it is bad to needlessly expose yourself to harmful chemicals. Keep cleaning/disinfecting your home hourly if you believe that it won't/can't hurt you.

Interesting point: "The HE filters used in this study claimed filtration of particles to 1-2 [microns], much better than standard filters of 30-50 [microns]. Using standard filters is one reason that motor oil needs to be changed; it gets dirty with small particles which results in engine wear. In this regard, standard filters have not improved over the years compared to significant improvements in motor oil quality. The oil change interval set in warranties is a result of standard filters being the limiting factor, not the motor oil quality. Hence, higher quality filters will help to extend motor oil life to its full potential."

This raises the question: would it be safe to keep engine oil for

Is an HE filter necessary? Oil analysis comparisons of the HE Fram X2 filter vs. a normal CarQuest filter would have been nice.

Maybe I can do an experiment with my '96 Camry (176k miles). For my wife's car, the 5,000 mile oil change will remain...

Michael

The problem is that the oil filter is filtering out the small particles. So you still have the small particles going right through the filter.

Only if the comparisons include small particles.

And how are you going to determine the results of the experiment. You have an n of 1 (one sample). Not very useful.

This doesn't take into account that the additives in the oil get used up.

Jeff

Good point.

Then again the ('96) car's seen oil change intervals of 8000 miles anyway. Was thinking of pulling the valve cover to see how it's doing. In the absence of HE vs. regular oil filter data, was thinking of just changing the (regular) filter, leaving the oil in, for say

The article implied that oil additives aren't the limiting factor: it's the oil filter that is the limiting factor.

Michael

And then there is that incredibly noisy minority of people who actually think they are giving good advice.

Did you read the stuff you just posted (bolow)? It says 3750 (severe) and

I am saying "no," though it is conjecture like everyone else's. Honda itself says the normal schedule "is fine for most drivers." From my

On the 96 Camry it would be easy (assuming a 4 cylinder) because of the oil filter placement. On a lot of vehicles, changing just the filter would be messy.

Of course the whole premise is wrong to begin with though. Using "standard" filters has nothing to do with how often the oil needs to be changed.

Yes I did. I understood that the two mileage requirements were 3750 (Severe) & 7500 (Normal). What I was commenting on was the line that said - "Their definition of normal also pretty much leaves out everybody."

While Nissan tends to push owners toward the "severe" schedule more than than other companies, I was trying to make the point that the regular schedule does not leave everybody out. I should have been more explicit in what I was discussing. To be clear, I think most Nissan drivers can use the regualr schedule. Honestly, why would anyone call a schedule "Normal" and then claim it wasn't? If they meant for the

Ed

I have one of the Chrysler 2.7 engines in one of my 2 Concordes. They are known for sludging up and catastrophically failing at between 60k and 80k miles. Many people learned the hard way not to go by the recommended 7500k change interval on those.

Of course it depends on the service that the vehicle sees too - i.e., lots of stop-and-go short-trip stuff vs. mostly highway use.

Mine has over 230k miles on it now and runs great because it is used on my daily commute of 80 miles total each weekday and I change oil and filter every 3000-3800 miles. Though people on the Chrysler forums will insist that that engine will not last unless you use synthetic, I've disproven that by using non-synth Castrol and 8 oz. of Marvel Mystery Oil at all times.

There are definitely some engines that can tolerate abuse (long oil change intervals), but some are definitely intolerant of that. I think it has to do with the crankcase breathing design.

ALSO - I can't help but feel that a lot of instances of engines failing due to sludging up is because more places (dealers included) than you would think actually do not change the oil or filter when the customer pays for it - I have seen that twice personally - once on my elderly mother's car, and once on a Jeep that my daughter had bought that had supposedly had oil and filter changed religiously every 3k miles at a chain, and I proved that to be absolutely false.

I've read more than one account on Chrysler LH car flrums where it was claimed that Chrysler refused to cover a 2.7L engine failure when the customer had receipts showing the oil was changed at the dealer on the Schedule A. Reason for turning the claim down: There is no such thing in the real world as Schedule A service. Everything is Schedule B. Claim denied. I can't swear that the posters were telling the truth, but that's what was claimed.

The smaller the particle the filter traps, the quicker it is going to clog up. Also, until you get to a point of saturation, the size of the particles missed by a "standard" filter are not large enough to do much engine wear. I'm fairly anal about my vehicle, but I don't use filters that trap very fine particles. I use regular old standard filters. They are less prone to being clogged. And if that happens the bypass kicks in and you have no filtering at all.

It would depend on the service. If it's all highway miles, maybe.. If not, pretty risky.. :(

I think it's a waste of money, and also not the greatest idea as I have already touched on.

If your Camry has 176k miles on it, you are probably doing something right. Why change? :/

Myself, I use regular standard filters, half decent oil, "castrol syntec blend", and I change it every 5k miles like the manual and the blinky light on the dashboard says. I'm not a fan of "extended oil change skeds". The purpose of changing the oil and filter is to remove the dirt, acids, moisture, and whatever else, and to replenish the additives in the oil. I'm not going much past 5k in any of my vehicles, and I don't care what anyone thinks about it. My older trucks actually get dirtier after 5k miles than my newer Corolla. It's so clean burning it is really not that bad after 5k.. But I change it anyway. Cheap insurance. I don't use synth blend in the trucks though.. Just regular dino oil.. I only use the synth blend in the Corolla as extra insurance against the dreaded gelling problem. Again, the extra cost is cheap insurance the way I see it.