Re: R.I.P. General Motors (1931-2006)

Subaru has the Forester which Consumers Reports rates as "Top Pick" in the small SUV category. Around 22,000(US) I have one (04 Forester XS). I get 34mpg (Imperial Gallons). I occasionally tow my utility trailer, Forester is rated to tow 2400lbs. I can carry 5 people comfortably. Subaru has one of the top "Owner Satisfaction" and "reliability" ratings on the market today. Plus, If I want to go fast, really fast, I could have gotten the XT (Turbo) model with over 240hp, 0-60 in less than 6 seconds. To top it all off, these are reallly easy to re-sell when the time comes, they are hard to find used. If, and when I need more vehicle for whatrever trip or purpose, I'll rent it for the day, or weekend, whatever.

Reply to
Grolch
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Hmm; from what I know of the 1950s, the pickups were actually pretty big. The very little ones didn't come out until the 1960s, when Datsun started importing them.

Geoff

Reply to
Geoff Miller

The point is there are plenty of good SUVs available on the market that can be had for around the same price, and get as good fuel mileage, as a mid size sedan. Many a mid size sedan carry only five passengers. To say people don't NEED SUVs is ridiculous

mike hunt

Reply to
Mike Hunter

You are forgetting that lots of people had Jeeps in the

1950's. Lots of people purchased Jeep Cherokees in the 1960's. I don't remember whether or not the pickups made in the 1950's had four wheel drive. Jason
Reply to
Jason

I think you're ignoring what I said and responding to what you think I said. There's a huge difference.

Although it is MY OPINION that many people that own SUV's don't need them, it does not mean that I don't think that anyone who wants one shouldn't go right out and buy one. Hell, I was in the military for

24 years so I could defend American's right to do what they want within the law.

I was merely bringing up my opinion for discussion in light of the discussion regarding American car makers problems and the rising gas prices. Stating my opinion as long as I don't force it on anyone should not be considered "communism" or "ridiculous".

Reply to
Lee Florack

I agree with everything you wrote -- including the parts about not being able to see around them.

Reply to
Lee Florack

Really? People have a right to drive whatever they want? I guess I missed that in the Constitution.

Here is a fact for you. You absolutely do not have a right to drive whatever you want. In fact, you don't have a right to drive anything on the public roads. You may qualify for the privilege of driving legal vehicles on the roads in conformity with all laws and restrictions. Once so qualified, you may purchase and any vehicle you are licensed to drive which is legal for use on public roads, subject to many restrictions. For example, you are not be allowed to operate a heavy truck on many roads. On some roads, you can not operate a pickup.

So what is the argument about? It is about what (not whether) restrictions should apply to the size and construction of passenger vehicles and how we will permit them to be operated on public roads.

Now that we have established that you do not have a right to drive anything you want, we can discuss what you should be allowed to drive and under what circumstances and qualifications.

Unfortunately, the collective decision of million of people to replace cars with SUVs has adverse effects on highway safety, pollution, traffic congestion and fuel costs for everyone. That is why there are restrictions on what you can drive on public roads.

Reply to
Gordon McGrew

Gordon McGrew cried out

Well said, you can't drive a lawn tractor down the interstate can you? A texas driver with a class c (standard) licence can not legally purchase a class a (commerical semi) vehicle nor operate such vehcile on public roads.

Reply to
Rosco

Most people who buy SUVs don't need them and would be better off with another type of vehicle.

But to take your challenge, I went to Edmunds.com to see if I could find a 4WD SUV for about the same price as a 4 cyl Accord EX using their "True Market Price." I admit I didn't look at every possible SUV but I looked at least ten likely candidates and threw them out until I found four that were less than $2000 higher than the Accord. The four were Escape, CRV, Santa Fe and RAV4. I equipped them all with mid to high end trim, AT and the smallest available engine. The SUVs ended up costing $500 to $1300 more than the Accord.

Escape CRV Santa Fe Accord RAV4 City 19 mpg. 22 mpg. 18 mpg. 24 mpg. 23 mpg. Highway 22 mpg. 27 mpg. 23 mpg. 34 mpg. 27 mpg.

All of these SUVs are "crossovers" and none can match the milage of the Accord.

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Reply to
Gordon McGrew

Reply to
razz

I visited the suzuki.com website and found out that they have an SUV (Suzuki XL-7) for sale that starts out at $21,999. It's my guess that a 4 cyld. Accord EX starts out at MORE than $21,999. Jason

Reply to
Jason

Perhaps, but w can still buy one of they want. The government call not controll what vehicles buyers choose to buy. They can requlate what we buy via a perversion of the Commerce clause but not what we buy, as long as it meets of the current regualtions, The environuts have tried for years to dictate what we buy againe with more perversions of the Commerce clause like setting fuel and safety standards, but they have yet to ontroll what we buy. They would love to do so, sort of like the former USSR

mike hunt

Reply to
Mike Hunter

If that is the case you must really hate six wheelers and semis ;)

mike hunt

Reply to
Mike Hunter

I only hate being behind them.

Reply to
Lee Florack

I alway felt that if I needed an SUV to get to work I should stay home that day. Only people in critical jobs (i.e. nurses, doctors etc.) can say they NEED an SUV to get to work on bad snow days.

Reply to
Dave

I bet you'd hate being in front of them more if you had to make a panic stop!

Reply to
Ray O

Some can't take off work, they 'need' the money. LOL

mike hunt

Reply to
Mike Hunter

In other words, we can buy whatever we want, as long as it is what they let us buy.

And even with a Class A license, it can only be operated on certain roads and/or under certain conditions.

Reply to
Gordon McGrew

I'm not sure even that is true, but clearly we are not talking about your right to buy a golf cart and drive it around on your own property. We are talking about what you can operate on the public roads.

In other words, you can drive whatever they let you drive. A vehicle twice as wide as a Hummer could not be operated on any road without special permits. There is a maximum permitted width for vehicles which varies with the particular road on which you intend to operate it. Setting that limit is a matter of public policy reflecting the physical realities of road configurations and the safety margins which are deemed appropriate. There is nothing stopping State or local government from passing a law limiting the use of residential roads to vehicles of a width one inch narrower than a Hummer. There has to be some limit and where does it say in the Constitution that the limit has to be wider than a Hummer, or even an Explorer?

How many Hummers would they sell if you couldn't drive it within three blocks of your house?

Reply to
Gordon McGrew

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The $21,999 vehicle is a 2 wheel drive SUV in base trim. The Accord EX lists higher but the invoice is lower and the "True Market Value" is about the same. If you want 4WD, it will cost you about $1000 more than the Accord according to Edmunds. Of course, you can also get a Value Edition Accord for about $17,700. That is $4000 less than the cheapest XL-7.

Reply to
Gordon McGrew

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