Replace timing belt? ? ?

"Ray" wrote in news:cMCxn.87007$ snipped-for-privacy@newsfe21.iad:

If it were a "grab", it wouldn't be a "Honda" grab, but a "dealer" grab. The dealer is a totally separate company from Honda. But it's not a "grab".

I'd get the work done as per the dealer's recommendation, along with the water pump, which lives under the timing belt.

Your maintenance schedule is 7 years and 105K miles. You're not quite there with mileage, but are 2 years over for time. In theory, you could chance leaving it for another year or two, but...

Look at it this way: The current belt will not go another five years without serious risk of failure, so you're replacing it at some point anyway in the next few years.

So, two scenarios:

1) If you get it done now, not only do you eliminate the risk of getting stranded, or of expensive valve damage, but you get five years out of the expenditure before you get rid of the car. 2) If you wait another year or two, you're running the risk of getting stranded, or of suffering valve damage, plus when you get rid of the car you've only got three or four years out of your expenditure.

Failure of the timing belt can result in significant damage to the engine so replacing it at the recommended intervals is a wise investment. Changing the water pump seals is a good idea since they are in the =91neighborhood=92 and easily added to the job.

This job does not need to be performed by the dealer. It can be performed by any good mechanic with the proper tools and knowledge. You can save some money by using someone other than a dealer but, obviously, make sure the shop is competent.

Thanks. I'll get the work done now, although the price of $900 seems steep to me. I probably could get it done cheaper at Midas or some other discount shop, but I think I'll go to the Honda dealer.

Thanks -- I'll certainly consider that. The Honda place is quoting $900, which seems high to me.

I like the way you think, Tegger. Great advice. What's your feeling on the seals vs water pump? Ray mentions the seals but everything I've read to date is water pump as in the complete unit. My thought is that tossing a new pump in while "in the neighborhood" is doing the job right.

What say you?

I'd certainly shop that job. The price seems high to me as well. I'm a couple years away from the job on my 2006 Accord with 58k and I seem to recall seeing prices for timing belt and the entire water pump quoted in the $600 range (or was that wishful dreaming?).

SNIP>

Get on the phone and call a few dealers. You might be surprised and the difference in prices. More than $200 between top to bottom when I did it. On this job I'd try to stick with a dealer-certainly wouldn't go to a Midas or one similar. MLD

There's always Jiffy Lube! That way you could get your transmission AND rear differential flushed at the same time. They'll probably re-energize your headlights and torque your framis for free.

Time to hijack this thread!

My Mazda snapped the timing belt at less than 30K miles a couple of years ago. I am assuming it was a defective belt, as a new belt fixed the problem and it has not broken since.

Additional details: The timing belt, tension pulleys and water pump were all replaced, then the belt broke early, (less than 2 years and less than 30K miles), and I only replaced the belt after it broke, so I don't think it was a problem with anything other than the belt itself. All of the parts were Mazda OEM.

When this happened, the engine simply stopped, and there was no damage at all.

My question is, why does my Honda engine (possibly) suffer damage when the timing belt breaks and the Mazda engine does not?

I understand interference versus non-interference engines, what I am wondering is why any engines are designed to suffer damage when the timing belt breaks, since this is obviously not the way that the engine has to be made.

Is there an advantage performance-wise to having the engine designed to semi-self destruct when a timing belt snaps? Is it possibly cheaper to design and/or build?

Thanks!

Pat

What he said. You should be able to find a fully competent mechanic who will do the job for quite a bit less money.

I am not completely against using the dealership, but the mechanics there are not always the best, (it can be hit or miss), and the prices that a dealership charges is usually on the upper end for standard mechanic work, at least in my experience.

Good luck!

Pat

I'm due in 2011 and my dealer wants $900. There is four hours of labor just for the belt.

Good question. I thought maybe using an interference design had something to do with better volumetric efficiency. Here is what I found so far:

"The benefits of [the interference engine] design are a closer tolerance, shorter engine, more freedom in combustion chamber design and valve angle." from

But also: " ... [P]revious split-cycle engines have had problems relating to poor breathing (volumetric efficiency) and low thermal efficiency.The breathing problem [volumetric efficiency] is caused by the high- pressure gas trapped in the compression cylinder. This trapped high- pressure gas needs to expand before another charge of air can be drawn into the compression cylinder, which effectively reduces the engine's capacity to pump air and results in poor volumetric efficiency. Scuderi's engine solves the breathing problem by reducing the clearance between the piston and the cylinder head to less than 1mm. This design requires the use of valves that open outwards, enabling the piston to move very close to the cylinder head without interference with the valves. Almost 100 per cent of the compressed air from the compression cylinder is therefore pushed into the crossover passage." from

Good question. I thought maybe using an interference design had something to do with better volumetric efficiency. Here is what I found so far:

"The benefits of [the interference engine] design are a closer tolerance, shorter engine, more freedom in combustion chamber design and valve angle." from

But also: " ... [P]revious split-cycle engines have had problems relating to poor breathing (volumetric efficiency) and low thermal efficiency.The breathing problem [volumetric efficiency] is caused by the high- pressure gas trapped in the compression cylinder. This trapped high- pressure gas needs to expand before another charge of air can be drawn into the compression cylinder, which effectively reduces the engine's capacity to pump air and results in poor volumetric efficiency. Scuderi's engine solves the breathing problem by reducing the clearance between the piston and the cylinder head to less than 1mm. This design requires the use of valves that open outwards, enabling the piston to move very close to the cylinder head without interference with the valves. Almost 100 per cent of the compressed air from the compression cylinder is therefore pushed into the crossover passage." from

My understanding is that the whole water pump is replaced along with the cam/crank seals.

JT

Yes, this is a labor intensive task.

With my old relic Civics, it is about one an a half hours. But the modern stuff has lost all properties of simplification...

JT

Dddudley wrote in news:4bc70a41$0$18976$ snipped-for-privacy@news.usenetmonster.com:

I think the "seals" mentioned are actually the crank and cam oil seals. If you're diligent with your oil changes, and the seals are not found to be seeping when exposed on disassembly, then you don't really need to change them.

The water pump is a complete unit; its seals are not serviceable. The water pump should be replaced with every timing belt change.

Depending where you live, there is a good chance you could find a competent independent shop that specializes in Japanese cars. Such shops do the work usually for much less and often better as well. I found mine through this web site:

think I found this site on this news group.

Grumpy AuContraire wrote in news:mpidnZfaxLIo21rWnZ2dnUVZ snipped-for-privacy@giganews.com:

4-cylinder Accords have a balancer belt in addition to the timing belt. V6 Accords have a lot of stuff to take apart before the belt can be replaced. You want a cheap belt change? Get a Civic.

In any case, eventually this problem will go away, for most people. New cars are all using chains now.

2006? I assume this is a V6? The 4-banger on that version is chain-driven.