Dealer bites the dust

steady now, get a grip...

On shaky ground here.

Yeah - I supposed I might be a bit predictable at times. I'm just so tired of that phrase "gas guzzlers", and it always seems to get thrown out there for the effect, rather than a valid argument point. I do agree that it seems we well ought to be able to expect mileage numbers in the 40's now, without any radical designs. 30's was great for a generation of cars, and I applaud GM for having lead the pack in producing as many cars as they did, for as long as they did, that achieved that kind of mileage. But, like you, I believe it's time to advance on that front. I really like both of the Sonatas we own (04 and 06), and I have almost nothing but good to say about them, but the one thing that struck me with each one of them was that the mileage compared to my GM cars was actually somewhat off. Not so bad as to make owning either one a bad experience, but it is hard at first to accept a new car getting a couple/few less miles per gallon that what you owned before it.

40-50 isn't really the norm in Europe, is it? I too believe that a car like the Cobalt should be getting better mileage. It does not seem unreasonable to me to expect to see upper 30's out of that size car these days - without going to steps like putting a diesel in it.

That said, my daughter recently replaced an 00 Sunfire with an 05 or 06 Mazda 3. Granted, you don't mention Japanese cars above, but they are generally touted as being superior to GM in every respect, and certainly in the mileage department. (Not so, but that's what you hear). Her in city mileage dropped significantly (an impact to her because she lives in the city and does a large amount of city driving), and her highway mileage dropped some. Not as noticeable a drop as the city mileage, but still a drop.

The HHR is a design nightmare for mileage figures. I can see where that would struggle to attain the mileage that a more aerodynamic design should achieve, but its city mileage could be better, I believe.

I'm anxious to see more advances in electric, but in self-generating electric. Diesel generator locomotives have advanced great strides in the tonnage they can move on a gallon of diesel fuel, and it sure seems that the technology they employ could be migrated to cars. I'm not at all interested in seeing any more introductions that require the own to plug the car into the wall to charge it up.

Oh, 50 mpg in Europe is quite normal now, BUT remember that 1/2 of the cars are diesels! I'm retired now for 3 years but before that I spent TOO much time in Europe on business and routinely rented MB, Fords, and Peugeots that always gave me well over 50 mpg with as many as 4 people in them. Most of the mileage was what I would term suburban driving in town or on the Autobahn at 100 mph. The cars had surprising acceleration and passing ability too.

I agree, Mike. any care that has to be plugged in is doomed to failure until an infrastructure is well in place (which, I believe, will never happen given our present form of government self interests). One thing that makes the railroads so efficient is the fact that there is almost no contact area between the wheels and the track reducing friction. Once the energy is expended to get the mass up to speed, very little is needed to maintain it. I guess also the NASCAR drafting syndrome plays a part in moving a long train. Try that on the interstate!!! When I was young and foolish, I did that on my motorcycle behind trucks. You could almost close the throttle and be sucked along (while you prayed he didn't hit the brakes!). Tire technology could take a giant step forward to reduce rolling resistance too. I saw an ad for a new 'gas saving' tire but when you do the math, it is more hype than actual help.

Its the economy left by King Clusterfuck.

The banks are paying back thier loans.

We all know how people like you just hate that.

Throw in a war to scam a pipline, complete with no-bid contracts and no end strategy.

Yes, them Republickans are always shooting themselves in the foot, when they are aren't pretending to be Cheney. LOL.

But....Nancy's Astrologer said everthing would be OK!

AMEN! ;-)

Dear Lazy Assed Top- Poster:

The UAW didn't make the decisons to design and manufacture shit cars.

The UAW didn't piss billions away on bad advertsing.

The UAW didn't buy private jets to fly to Congressional Hearings.

The UAW is not in bed with Saudis like the Bush family is.

The difference is that the first scenario is possible and the second is not.

What Sedona are you talking about? Certainly not the Kia. I had one for a rental and it couldn't get 18 MPG.

I believe the XFE has changes other than the transmission. I believe the engine has been tweaked for fuel economy, it has low rolling resistance tires (I wonder what those cost to replace?), etc., that I don't believe are on the auto tranny version.

Matt

The main reason trains use this approach is to avoid the need for a clutch system capable of starting out heavy loads. This is basically the same as the hybrids currently in use. Yes, I think a diesel hybrid would have significant advantages over a gas hybrid, even with the greater weight of the diesel engine.

Matt

Ooops. Senility strikes again! I have a Kia Sedona AND a Hyundai Sonata and continually get the two names confused. Of course, I meant the Sonata getting 30+. Just got 32 on a 1900 mile trip. Incidentally, someone posted that they had a European Sedona (Kia) with a diesel and were getting over 30 mpg! Why can't that be us!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Getting the diesel past emission requirements is probably one reason. It may not be a smooth starting too, when the power is required, compared to gas, especially in cold climates. I have to think that they have considered it at some point.