Sonata miles per gallon?

can't say exact numbers but on other cars where I could in the past it depended on how you were driving. Same load, same driving roughly same milage - or about 1 mpg inthe mid 20 mpg range. For heavy loads the milage with the 6 operates more efficiently most of the time. For heavy foot driving the 6 burns more gas but it also can get you out of some trouble spots that a 4 can't. My bottom line is that for a rad car I perfer the 6. For a car that is loaded I prefer the 6. For a local only running lightly loaded the 4 is a better choice. A bigger issue is the transmission.

My '90 is giving me about 19 in mixed driving, mostly city. That's with one of the engine-mounted oxygen sensors out of commission. When I bought it in March, it was giving me more like 21. I live on a hill, in a hilly area, but I tend to drive with a light foot. It seems like this car should give better mileage than this -- it's too close to my Aerostar, which delivered 16-17.

Dunno. How does this sound?

Richard

Correction: My Sonata V6 is a 2000, not a '90.

Richard

Richard Ste>

You bought a cheap Korean made car the lacks refinement. Don't have high expectations and you won't get dissapointed.

We seem to be bringing out the trolls, don't we? Here's one making a grand pronouncement based on no experience whatsoever.

Richard

Well wouldn't you at least agree with me that Hyundais still are not up in terms of refinement, reliability, and durability with Toyota, Subaru, VW, and Cadillac?

If you still disagree than you are only fooling yourself.

I repeat what I've already said: you have made a statement without the backing of knowledge. Why did you feel the need to insert a prejudice here? What you wrote is as true as "...we know that they have weapons of mass destruction."

This is utter crap, of which you are full.

It's your turn to do some research into the performance goals of Hyundai and how those goals are being realized. The company did make some poor cars during the 80s, if I recall correctly. This is no longer true. The history of some automakers has shown cycles of alternating poor and good quality. Although I have owned excellent Chrysler cars from the good years, I would not want one of their newer products. Hyundai has been making rather decent cars of late, which is no surprise because they have been working diligently on their quality.

You really should perhaps buy or drive one or more recent Hyundais before issuing prououncements like this. Go talk with a few Hyundai owners yourself. In other words: get some experience before making pronouncements. Do some research -- it's not hard.

Or, just _Go get your hands on a recent Hyundai and drive it._

You should also get some experience concerning the autos you mentioned. "Refinement" is a vague term. In terms of reliability, I'd say that Hyundais have surpassed VW and Cadillac: a slam-dunk. In cost of ownership, Hyundai has done something unusual: they put the drain plug back on the torque converter, thereby saving the car owner about $75 for each transmission fluid change. Touches like this reveal a lot about how the manufacturer regards the people who give them their money. (What do you drive? Do you have a transmission drain plug?)

My Sonata is certainly as "refined" as any Cadillac. It's got so much automation that I worry that some computerized geegaw might fail and interfere with something important. Unfortunately, I trust the Korean parts more than I do their American equivalents.

Based upon my experience and mechanical knowledge (note: "experience and knowledge") I'd say that Hyundai has almost caught up with Toyota in dependability and engineering. Achieving this parity is, in fact, Hyundai's stated goal. As far as I've been able to ascertain, Toyota has surpassed every other car maker in terms of reliability. Cadillac and VW don't come close. Subaru occupies an almost-unique position in terms of practical body designs, but can suffer somewhat in maintenance costs due to unusual mechanical assemblies that require dealer servicing. The top two models from both Hyundai and Kia are, in my opinion, very refined in terms of human and mechanical engineering -- not perfect, but quite livable. Styling, too, is what's current (although I have an instant gut dislike of virtually all current cars). My only serious human engineering complaints about my 2000 Sonata are that the steering wheel obstructs my view of the speedometer; the center console contour is dreadful -- things slide off it. And the rear of the car's , elegant appearance is achieved at the cost of usable trunk space. Sure looks mighty refined, though.

The word "cheap" implies low quality. That's not my experience with a number of Korean products. These cars provide unsurpassed value: bang for the buck. I'd say that overall, my experience with Korean engineering has been of design that's close to the Japanese in excellence of performance. In terms of ease of repair, nobody can touch Japanese engineers in making products that are difficult (and expensive) to fix (note: this is a generalization based on consumer electronics). However, let's say by comparison, the extremely high costs of maintaining a Ford Aerostar are a direct result of designing obstructed access into the product, proving that we've learned the worst of what the Japanese designers had to offer. This is compounded by engineering blunders: things like premature, expensive head gasket failure (shared with other Ford products that use the same engines).

These issues are very complex, and not suitable to flippant one-liners of judgment. My expectations of my Hyundai, in fact, are as high as they are for any automobile I'd want to own.

Making generalizations like this show a lack of knowledge and understanding. You know, most of us will agree that Yugos were lousy cars. Yet, I've run into a couple of guys who -based on their personal experience- have had outstanding luck with them (they work on their own cars). To begin with, Yugos were simply Fiats assembled in the Balkans. So, they share parts and service data. The design was as "refined" as Fiat; workmanship was, overall, even worse. They're just motorized hockey pucks, but can be just great for getting around town and fitting into small parking spots. But if you're handy with a wrench and like to keep as much money as possible (and don't want to drive on a long trip), hey, here's your car: a Yugo.

Richard

Here is what I wrote in response to another ng message regarding Hyundai longevity:

"My 97 Tiburon has just passed the 250,000 mile mark and is still running strong. It uses about a quart of oil every 1000 miles, but I don't consider that excessive for a car with this many miles on it. I bought the car new so I know what has been repaired over the years. During its' in-warranty period, the throttle position sensor was out of spec which caused a couple visits to the dealer. Also, the clutch master cylinder went out at about 45,000 miles and was replaced by the dealer. The first "major" repair (that I had to pay for) was replacing the alternator at 170,000 miles. The only other major repair I had to contend with was a failed clutch throw-out bearing at 230,000 miles. As amazing as it sounds, when I dropped the transmission and removed the clutch there was virtually no wear to the disk or pressure plate, but I replaced it all anyway. I have never before owned a car that is as reliable as my Tiburon. I have a spare engine sitting in my garage (a

2000cc from a '99 Elantra with 43,000 miles on it) in anticipation of the day when this power plant finally does give up, but at this point, it doesn't seem like that will be any time soon. " Before you put down Hyundai's as being "cheap and lacking refinement" get your damn facts straight!

Well, Eastwardbound...

In posts to other groups you pretend to be a devout religious (although incredibly intolerant) individual, who in fact posted thusly "Rudeness is a crime." -- Yet you blow in here and insult the cars of choice for almost all the posters here. Overwhelmingly, we think that Hyundai cars are super, and a steal for the money. I'm driving a 1989 Sonata (the first year they imported them to the U.S) with 308,000 miles on it and I'm going to tow an enclosed trailer 2500 miles with it next month. BTW, the 1989-1991 Sonatas were built in Canada, not Korea.

Harry

Still does your Hyundai have the same handling and performance characteristics as the new VW Jetta? Does it have as nice of an interior and exterior, and does it have nearly as advanced engineering, in terms of the powertrain and ergonomics?

Keep all things considered first before trashing VW. VW happens to make some really fine cars. Think of them as poor mans BMW's.

The new VW Jetta utilizes a brand new 5 cylinder in line gas engine for the all new 2005 model. Also the TDI is available for those who prefer diesel. There is a choice of 5 - Speed manual transaxle or a 6 speed automatic transaxle with "tiptronic". So one can shift through the gears manualy on an automatic transaxle.

There is a host of advanced standard and optional features. Just go see for yourself.

since when does handling and performance have anything to do with reliability, I never said vws weren't engineered well. they're just not very reliable cars... weve priced a vw jetta tdi 2006, nice car, nice features but too pricy. 32

Hey, this is getting to be fun. Religious and intolerant, huh? Seems to go with the territory. He digs in his heels and persists with increased vehemence from his position: totally rigid in the belief that hs's right, he knows absolutely nothing about Hyundais, and spouts increasing irrelevant arguments.

This guy is a real piece of work.

Richard

For your information I did take a good look at the new Hyundais today. I just didn't test drive them because I know I'm not going to buy one and I didn't want to waste the salesmans time.

The most troublesome car I ever owned was a VW Rabbit. My two previous cars before my present Sonata V6 GLS were Cadillacs. Both of the Cadillacs had reliability problems. As for my Sonata, I can only say that after several years of ownership I have absolutely no buyer;'s remorse nor would I have any reservations towards buying another new one.

Old_Timer

I agree my 2002 has had no problems since I have owned it and I would buy another. Not to soon I still have a long warranty. If I compared my service reports to the GM cars I have owned it would only make on sick. No wonder they are on the ropes. Should I be a good American and buy GM or buy what car I want. It does bother me. But I would rather buy a new Sonata compared to an Impala.

Thank God , Gm is finally getting what I wished on it (probably myself and millions of others). They could give them away and I wouldn't bite.

Having your wipers quit on you in the middle of a S. Fla downpour is a scary thing to happen over and over (reminded me of my MGB that used to stall in the middle of the freeway going 65).

Not to mention GM's anit-stop , eh.. I mean anti-lock brakes.

I drove an Astro van recently (because of the sale) and the doors didn't line up right and it reminded me of my Blazer. I guess a test drive now and then to refresh the memory is a good thing.

Whoa, hold on there. I own a VW Jetta, it may be engineered correctly but it's reliability is at the bottom. We have spent literally thousands on car repairs that others dont. . first 50k miles . . many small problems plus not covered byk warranty were . . front wheel bearing (?), pressure hose for power steering (?), many fault codes, cat converter replaced at 82,500 (warranty good til 80,000). I stock akuto light bulbs because they always blowing . . dealers answer was we're abusing the car!!

Who but VW would design cup holders that when in use completely obstruct the readio/CD control?

In 1998 they were using a coolant sensor that failed all the time, in

2003 they were still putting it in cars.

How about the great remote key fobs that work no more than 2 feet from the drivers window? The dealer told me to hold the FOB on my forehead when I clicked it. TRUE STORY.

How about the falling windows that they knew about in 1998 and were still putting the same parts in 2003 cars?

Next time you come to a knife fight, come with a knife, not a plastic spoon.