The real point is that the Sonato, nor any other car sold in the US, is
capable of giving fuel mileage even close to what they should be giving. If
we got off our butts and put diesels in all our cars, large and small, we
would probably be oil independent given the 35% improvement in fuel economy
that diesels are capable of giving. Three Chicago Wolf is right on and
benick is hopelessly entrenched in his own little world to ever see out into
the real world and recognize where his offspring will be in 20 years. His
group's legacy to them is what is dooming all our children.
I've been to Europe many times and NEVER have I seen a pickup truck of the
size of the US version. Those workers get the job done and haul their tools
without a big truck. In fact, it is extremely rare to even see a small
pickup truck. They mainly use little panel trucks that work very well,
evidently. Point is that you don't NEED that F350 to haul a tool
I've been to Europe many times also and lived there for more than 4
months a couple of decades ago. Everything in Europe is smaller,
refrigerators were not much larger than my college dorm fridge and most
other appliances were similarly smaller. You don't need a large truck
to carry small stuff, I agree. However, many in the UK had to visit the
grocery store multiple times a week to get what they needed as they
could fit only so much in their refrigerators and small kitchens. This
isn't a problem when the store is 1 km distant, but I live 5 miles from
the nearest convenience store and 15 from the nearest real supermarket.
So, getting a jug of milk requires a 10 mile drive. I could buy an 8
cu ft fridge and drive to the store every other day, but I think it more
efficient to load my fridge once a week and save the driving. However,
this does require larger trucks to deliver such appliances, but I
believe the trade-off is in my favor.
Energy consumption is a complex system and often the "obviously" smart
choice is actually the wrong choice when the total system is evaluated.
Let me understand this, Matt. You couldn't get a week's worth of groceries
in a small car?????? Bad comparison. Sorry. They don't have small cars in
Europe because they have small refrigerators and don't need to haul a lot of
groceries. You certainly are smart enough to not buy a large truck just to
pick up a large appliance. If you are any good at negotiating, you can get
it delivered as part of the purchase.
You really need to work on your reading comprehension. SOMEBODY needs a
large truck to deliver a 22 cu ft refrigerator, a freezer, a washer and
dryer, etc. Just because somebody else has to buy the truck doesn't
change the fallacy of your argument against large trucks.
I also plow my own driveway (it is 1700' feet long), haul my own
firewood, etc. This doesn't work well with a small car...
Yes, but that truck is a diesel used exclusively to deliver product to
multiple locations making it efficient to operate. It isn't used to haul
the wife to the mall or the kids to a soccer game or all the other wasteful
trips that the truck takes during its lifetime.
Plowing a driveway is a legitimate use but with a year's worth of fuel
difference between the 17 mpg truck and a 32 mpg car, you could hire someone
to plow it. Also, I use a 4 wheeler trailer to haul my firewood so I only
have to pull the trailer a few times a year and not haul the weight of the
truck the rest of the year. That's something else you see in Europe. They
have a lot of trailer hitches for just such occasions.
My reading comprehension is quite good but it just makes me sick to read
I reply to you, Matt, because I've read many of your comments over time and
you seem to be knowledgeable; therefore, I still have some hope that you can
'see the light'. :o) It's always healthy to debate both sides of a
This debate definitely entertained the heck outta me :-)
For the record, I believe the earth is warming. I don't believe anyone has
really figured out why yet. I also believe it is a cyclical event that
there ain't a thing we can do about. I am also a registered Republican but
I do vote for an occasional "D". I can't find anyone I can really align
with this time around though :-(
Yes, I'm in much the same boat. I'm not a fan of any of the front
runners or any of the "independents in waiting" such as Bloomberg. I
may write in someone's name just so I can say I voted and did my civic
duty, but did so without compromising my beliefs.
At this point in time I'd have to agree with a write in being the best
choice for me as well. Bloomberg scares the heck out of me. His idea
of gun control is to allow only the criminals and police to have guns.
His fiscal policies seem pretty sound though, and I know many around
here in NJ would vote for him if he throws his hat in to the ring.
Doesn't Reagan have any relatives that want to run??? :-)
'Here's my strategy on the Cold War: We win, they lose.' - Ronald Reagan
'The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the
government and I'm here to help.' - Ronald Reagan
'The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's
just that they know so much that isn't so.' - Ronald Reagan
'Of the four wars in my lifetime, none came about because the U.S. was
- Ronald Reagan
'I have wondered at times about what the Ten Commandments would have
looked like if Moses had run them through the U.S. Congress.' - Ronald
'The taxpayer: That's someone who works for the federal government but
doesn't have to take the civil service examination.'
- Ronald Reagan
'Government is like a baby: An alimentary canal with a big appetite at
one end and no sense of responsibility at the other.'
- Ronald Reagan
'The nearest thing to eternal life we will ever see on this earth is a
government program.' - Ronald Reagan
'It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have
learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first.' - Ronald
'Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short
phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it
stops moving, subsidize it.' - Ronald Reagan
'Politics is not a bad profession. If you succeed, there are many
rewards; if you disgrace yourself, you can always write a book.' -
'No arsenal, or no weapon in the arsenals of the world, is as formidable
as the will and moral courage of free men and women.' - Ronald Reagan
'If we ever forget that we're one nation under God, then we will be a
nation gone under.'
- Ronald Reagan
Jeez, Bob. You'll believe just about anyone, won't you?? :-)
To be honest, it has more credibility to me than Al Gore does. Does this
mean we'll have to get the government to regulate that all cars and trucks
ahouls get LESS than 10 MPG and generate more CO2? Oh wait, I see it says
the sun overpowers anything man could ever do to the environment, CO2 wise
This is the best (IMHO) objective and non-partisan take on the subject I've
It's worth everyone's time to read it.
I especially like this snippet:
Global warming alarmists maintain that global temperatures have increased
since about A.D. 1860 to the present as the result of the so-called
"Industrial Revolution,"-- caused by releases of large amounts of greenhouse
gases (principally carbon dioxide) from manmade sources into the atmosphere
causing a runaway "Greenhouse Effect."
Was man really responsible for pulling the Earth out of the Little Ice Age
with his industrial pollution? If so, this may be one of the greatest
unheralded achievements of the Industrial Age!
Feb 2008 17:15:30) about "Re: Wow! How about that new Genesis!":
EG> This debate definitely entertained the heck outta me :-)
Whatever this is it is -not- a debate.
More like a farce. ;-)
=== Posted with Qusnetsoft NewsReader 3.3
17:40:37) about "Re: Wow! How about that new Genesis!":
> Let me understand this, Matt. You couldn't get a week's worth of
> groceries in a small car?????? Bad comparison. Sorry. They don't have
> small cars in Europe because they have small refrigerators and don't
> need to haul a lot of groceries. You certainly are smart enough to not
> buy a large truck just to pick up a large appliance. If you are any good
> at negotiating, you can get it delivered as part of the purchase.
Oh God I am going to -die- laughing at you fellas!
=== Posted with Qusnetsoft NewsReader 3.3
Benick keeps referring to Al Gore. Benick, have you ever watched Al Gore's
'Inconvenient Truth' and comprehended what he was outlining for you? Or did
you just take someone's word that it was a bunch of tree-hugging bum dope?
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