I'm not asking anyone to "lower" themselves. Material goods, be it a huge house, big cars, or fancy computer does not have anything to do with the character of an individual. I think I'm morally superior to someone that preaches one thing but actually acts in a different manner.
Gore wants us to reduce our carbon footprint, yet he maintains a house that is far beyond what sensible people need to live in, uses a privet jet to get around an justifies it because he makes donation for carbon credits. Sort of like buying yourself into heaven.
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By spending my money to see what he as done enriches him and gives him personal credibility. I'm not going to do that, be him right or wrong.
Rob, Thank you so much for attaching all the links for me to become more educated. Clearly you used Google to its best advantage. If YOU want to become more educated about BOTH sides of the argument, then, by all means, watch Gore's movie. Surely seeing BOTH sides of an argument is much better than taking someone else's opinion of what was presented. Oh, in the second link you sent, it describes 'one' scientist's controversial opinion while also saying 'Earth is currently experiencing rapid warming, which the vast majority of climate scientists says is due to humans pumping huge amounts of greenhouse gases into the atmosphere." Make sure you see the 'vast majority' versus the 'one'. How could you offer that up as an argument??????
If you would get out more, you would notice that people get what they deserve. If they work hard and can afford nice cars, they deserve them. If they sit around and fiddle, they deserve less. That's the way it has always been, and the way it always will be. You don't think the hard working people should lower their living standards so lazy asses can have more, do you?
Wastefulness will indeed hasten the depletion of natural resources. However, people aren't equipped to deal with that in times of plenty. When fuel goes up to $15 a gallon, even some of the wealthier people will be forced to cut back. The $15 fuel is closer than we think, so all the waste is not doing as much harm as you think. -
I can post hundreds more if you like but I think it would be a waste of our time. I'm done, I know better than to try to argue with a liberal but I just can't...help...myself. Liberal arguments are based on emotion, not facts. Saving the world, trees, animals, air, water, etc. can really get some people worked up, even if it's not based on fact. One last link, hopefully you'll enjoy this one. It's Penn and Teller video.
One last one for me Rob. News flash. I'm not in any way shape or form a liberal! I am a staunch conservative. I want to conserve out natural resources for my grand kids. I want every alien out of this country. I want every welfare recipient to work for his/her money. I don't want anyone to be given a free ride on my 'buck'. Thanks for the link.
I reply to you, Matt, because I've read many of your comments over time and you seem to be knowledgeable; therefore, I still have some hope that you can 'see the light'. :o) It's always healthy to debate both sides of a dilemna.
Bob, it's got nothing to do with not getting out enough. I'm a bit insulted by your presumptuous attitude that I'm poor or something or that I insist people lower themselves or their standards. It's beyond a gross misinterpretation of the original argument of this post / thread. I don't give a rat's posterior what anyone drives.
As I've said from the beginning, a law that's been abused by car makers needs to be updated to address today's problems. Bush signed legislation, albeit too little too late, to address this by 2020. I'm just curious as to what loopholes exist in it, if any. There are people who work hard (you know, three jobs, kids, mortgage, bills, etc.) and STILL don't get ahead and it's got nothing to do with idleness or lethargy or not working harder. Everyone's situation is different. People who work smarter, not harder, get ahead in life. That, Bob, is how it IS.
$15 a gallon to the uber wealthy isn't going to be a big deal but one could only HOPE there will be an alternative to $15 gas by the time that happens. You don't think Paris Hilton, in her 10 city, 17 highway Bently, care is gas if $50 a gallon, do you?
I don't know that I agree with you that we're almost there. China and India's economies haven't quite peaked yet. Gas prices THAT high, I would imagine, would crash an economy. When a resources appears to be plentiful, it's not an apparent problem. You HAVE to factor in double or triple digit growth in other countries. They're going to want a bigger and bigger part of that world oil every year as their economy booms. People will only notice it when it's either almost gone or can only be had by the highest bidder. The bigger picture is that it's not just about fixing a broken law or making 35MPG the standard for a fleet by 2020, it's also the repercussions of sending industry to countries that are now booming exponentially as a byproduct. Exactly how much harder CAN a person work if another country is reaping all the benefits?
Matt Whiting wrote in news:NoKrj.173$ snipped-for-privacy@news1.epix.net:
This debate definitely entertained the heck outta me :-)
For the record, I believe the earth is warming. I don't believe anyone has really figured out why yet. I also believe it is a cyclical event that there ain't a thing we can do about. I am also a registered Republican but I do vote for an occasional "D". I can't find anyone I can really align with this time around though :-(
Yes, I'm in much the same boat. I'm not a fan of any of the front runners or any of the "independents in waiting" such as Bloomberg. I may write in someone's name just so I can say I voted and did my civic duty, but did so without compromising my beliefs.
Matt Whiting wrote in news:beMrj.174$ snipped-for-privacy@news1.epix.net:
At this point in time I'd have to agree with a write in being the best choice for me as well. Bloomberg scares the heck out of me. His idea of gun control is to allow only the criminals and police to have guns. His fiscal policies seem pretty sound though, and I know many around here in NJ would vote for him if he throws his hat in to the ring.
Doesn't Reagan have any relatives that want to run??? :-)
Eric
'Here's my strategy on the Cold War: We win, they lose.' - Ronald Reagan
'The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help.' - Ronald Reagan
'The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so.' - Ronald Reagan
'Of the four wars in my lifetime, none came about because the U.S. was too strong.'
- Ronald Reagan
'I have wondered at times about what the Ten Commandments would have looked like if Moses had run them through the U.S. Congress.' - Ronald Reagan
'The taxpayer: That's someone who works for the federal government but doesn't have to take the civil service examination.'
- Ronald Reagan
'Government is like a baby: An alimentary canal with a big appetite at one end and no sense of responsibility at the other.'
- Ronald Reagan 'The nearest thing to eternal life we will ever see on this earth is a government program.' - Ronald Reagan
'It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first.' - Ronald Reagan
'Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.' - Ronald Reagan
'Politics is not a bad profession. If you succeed, there are many rewards; if you disgrace yourself, you can always write a book.' - Ronald Reagan
'No arsenal, or no weapon in the arsenals of the world, is as formidable as the will and moral courage of free men and women.' - Ronald Reagan
'If we ever forget that we're one nation under God, then we will be a nation gone under.'
I realize this is not a political forum but it has drifted that way and I have to comment. Ronald Reagan was a great politician even if he was senile and his little sound bites were cute. But he was a terrible president for the long term good of the country. He added four trillion dollars to the national debt for our chuildren to pay back. And it was not necessary because the Russians would have gone broke soon without his escalation of the cold war.
It just goes to show how shortsighted the American people are and they are not very good at cause and effect.
I've been watching Presidents since 1952 and was in the military during the Vietnam war and Bush is the worst president yet with Johnson second worst.
Matt: Be sure to check for spelling and gramatical errors since it will prove that I am not really an engineer. Do not look at content.
We don't need any artificial laws. The only real law that should govern MPG in cars and fuel prices is supply and demand. Let the markets stay free. That way, the prices will always be fair, and the vehicles will have bearable fuel economy.
You talk as though the government is responsible for the laws of physics. Internal combustion engines have been all but tweaked to the limit. In order to improve mileage significantly, the automobile will have to undergo serious change. Cars will have to get smaller and a lot lighter to significantly improve mileage. Some people won't like the cars that result, so they will be accepted very grudgingly. Car makers aren't in business to make the government happy. They are in business to make their customers happy. And that's the way it should be. -
Normally I'd agree and strongly support your position. But I'm not so sure it works in this case.
Let's play "what if". What if the government did not mandated unleaded fuel? What if the government did not mandate some fuel savings? Would technology have won or would we be changing plugs at 10,000 miles because they are lead fouled? Would cars till be 5000 pounds when a much lighter one performs better?
Agree that the internal combustion engine is pretty close to its limits so other types must be researched. Twenty years ago people said the internal combustion engine was at its limit, but the automakers manage to add some power every couple of years. Just look at the 3800 GM for instance. Hyundai 3.3 is getting a boost. Evidently it is still possible to squeeze a bit more.
Just my opinion, but the hybrid is not the way of the future.
I'm also not so sure that the automakers actually want some of the changes that the government forces them to charge more for and increase profits. Public posturing aside, they do add those mandated "improvements" into the cost of the car. "We don't want to increase prices but the government makes us do it."
Bob Adkins wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:
Jeez, Bob. You'll believe just about anyone, won't you?? :-)
To be honest, it has more credibility to me than Al Gore does. Does this mean we'll have to get the government to regulate that all cars and trucks ahouls get LESS than 10 MPG and generate more CO2? Oh wait, I see it says the sun overpowers anything man could ever do to the environment, CO2 wise that is.
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