84 XK6 Opinions Please

Salutations:

I am looking at a 1984 XJ6 - 130km - seemingly in very nice shape body wise (rare where I live). I have advise that this is not a bad example or year all round and have just finished up a test drive.

I noted that it was holding rev's high (1,350 range) *after* warming up - and thusly seemed to shift fairly hard from lights and when accelerating. First gear seemed to make a slight whining noise until it warmed up. Also

- while it didn't seem to be smoking anywhere - I got a whiff something burning (wasn't sure if it was oil or transmission fluid) when I came up to lights or stopped and idled while driving - but like I said - couldn't see smoke anywhere obvious and it is desperate need of a tune up (the engine was 'rough' from idle and while driving).

It is showing all the signs of a weak battery on start - but seems to be charging fine once running. The trip computer is dead - as is the cruise control (which may or may not be linked I suppose) and, most alarmingly, the brake pedal seemed to go further down to the floor as we tested it through traffic and on a highway run..

It seemed very powerful from the line - but didn't have the overtaking power I was expecting when it downshifted on the highway between 80-110kmh (I have a '89 9000 SAAB Turbo - so I may be spoiled) and has an exhaust leak (tick-tick) somewhere near the head on the manifold..

Finally - while I am not sure what I should be seeing under the hood - all the pictures online show a a pipe and some plumbing on the block above the plugs - this seems to be missing and capped at the block.. Also - there seemed to be a very slight vacant spot a when steering from center - it wasn't constant - but came and went.

Now - while all or any of this would normally make the machine a non-contender - it does seem to have a excellent body and pretty good interior - the shocks are a bit soft, but it seems to be a low mileage example and I would like to make an offer if I can understand what I'm looking at and what it might cost to repair.

The dealer isn't asking a lot and isn't having much luck given what I have outlined - so - I would like to make an offer based on what I can find out. Hence my intrusion here - please excuse my ignorance on the machine..

Any experiences, opinions or considerations are welcomed and appreciated - this would be a family ride and I think it might be a nice one depending.. Thanks..

Reply to
Dexter J
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Unless you're a collector and want to spend a LOT of time and money doing repairs & restoration, etc. RUN, do not walk away from this car! Listing the problems of this vintage, which was indeed better than those which came before it, will give an idea why Jaguar became a division of Ford:

bad transmissions leaking main seals bad leather crack-prone paint (it's probably been repainted by now, if not it needs it.) bad wood leaking PS racks bad rubber - everywhere bad suspension bushings (clearly will be shot at thios mileage) bad motor mounts .... the list goes on.

Reply to
Gerald G. McGeorge

Rough idle and high revs are not uncommon, and often can be traced back to 'easy' problems, like suction leaks, the AAV, etc. (Note that "often" does not equal "always". ;)

The PO of my car said it tended to 'eat' batteries about every three years. Haven't seen any problems, nor begun to investigate, just thought I'd throw it in.

If it started out strong and got weaker as the drive went on, I'd suspect water boiling in the lines, although of course it could be other things. (And the water may have hosed the brake lines if it has been there long enough in sufficient quantity.)

The air rail is an emission control device, apparently, and if you are not subject to emissions, I wouldn't worry about it (except to ensure that the air pump has also been removed - no reason to waste the horsepower to turn a useless pump).

I'm far from an expert, but I've been through some similar issues with my daily driver, and at least some of your post wouldn't necessarily have me running the other direction.

If I might be so bold, you may wish to post your message on the XJ forum at

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.... Many of your questions are addressed in FAQs, Jaguar-related (user-written) books and a wealth of very bright, friendly Jag owners. An excellent site to bookmark if you're looking at a Series III!

- bill '84 XJ6 (Julia)

Reply to
William Watson

That's a little harsh, don't you think, Gerald? (Although I have to agree that no Jaguar is for the thin of wallet, particularly if you need a shop to perform fixes for you.)

Yes, my main seal leaks a little (actually, I'm not entirely convinced it's not the banjo bolt on the intake side - next oil change I'll redo the camshaft cover and banjo bolt over there and see). For a 20 year old car with almost 200,000 miles on it, I can keep a pan on the garage floor and add a little now and then. (It's only because that seal is such a *B*TCH* to change that so many of the originals are still there.

But the BW66 transmission is actually not bad, except for some idiot's idea of proper gear ratios. And the leather was hardly "bad" when it was installed, although much of it has dried and cracked, just like in any other 20-year-old car.

Mine had been repainted, so I can't comment, but, although I did replace the wood, it was only because the varnish had yellowed and started to bubble. The wood itself is in *perfect* shape, were I an expert enough refinisher to remove the varnish.

I've heard bad things about the steering racks, but likewise have not seen any issues with mine. (Fortunately, the PO believed in maintenance and repair of what was broken. ;)

And show me any car of similar vintage where the original rubber is still in good shape? Seems like most of your points apply equally well to almost anything produced in 1984.

Heck, you didn't even list the in-board brakes.

- bill '84 XJ6 (Julia)

Reply to
William Watson

that no Jaguar is for the thin of wallet, particularly if you need a shop to perform fixes for you.) <

Ah, how the truth doth chafe!

it's not the banjo bolt on the intake side - next oil change I'll redo the camshaft cover and banjo bolt over there and see). <

End your state of denial and be free, it's the friggin seal!

the garage floor and add a little now and then. (It's only because that seal is such a *B*TCH* to change that so many of the originals are still there.>

When I worked for the bastards, since the problem couldn't be fixed at it's source (Radford) I suggested we just supply a sterling silver drip pan with each, the management was not amused.....

Indeed, I had a boss at Jaguar who declared our products fluid averse: anything we tried to keep in, got out, anything we needed to keep out got in. He suggested the car needed to be operated in a fluid-free environment...the management was not amused....

idea of proper gear ratios. <

It was an old dog slush box of the first order, dealers used to keep about ten of the things in stock at all times. Techs got so good at swapping them out it was described as a "zipper-fix": Zip one out, zip one in, all day long.

it has dried and cracked, just like in any other 20-year-old car. <

Actually the leather was knackered the minute the first @$$ sat on it. It turns out Connolly rolled it through a texturizing process (the cow isn't grained, after all) that put tiny microscopic cracks in the leather which were amplified over time, ultimately making it look like a cheap Bomber jacket. (The issue was fixed in the late 80's). A 20 year old MB won't have this issue.

in good shape? Seems like most of your points apply equally well to almost anything produced in 1984. <

Uh, have you looked at an '84 MB or BMW lately?

Reply to
Gerald G. McGeorge

Perhaps, perhaps not. There are clearly many Jag owners driving S1-S3 cars which leak not at all, and I've seen more than one presumed mail seal leak turn out to be something else, at least vicariously.

I'll disregard the remainder of your post, as clearly neither of us is unbiased, nor likely to persuade the other. :-) For the record, though, I'd like to point out that the (original factory) leather in my '84 is *NOT* textured.

- bill '84 XJ6 (Julia)

Reply to
William Watson

Gerald wrote

bad transmissions leaking main seals bad leather crack-prone paint (it's probably been repainted by now, if not it needs it.) bad wood leaking PS racks bad rubber - everywhere bad suspension bushings (clearly will be shot at thios mileage) bad motor mounts .... the list goes on.

We had one a couple of years newer and it suffered from all of the above.............. seriously!!!

Dave Wilkinson

accelerating.

appreciated -

Reply to
David Wilkinson

Actualy it is, it was rolled to provide the "grain" in the hide. The cow has no grain (I shuldn't have said "textured"), which is why cheap leather, like on American domestics and most Japanese cars is smooth. The dies that make the grain had square edges, which cut the hide and over time allows it to develop minute rips. That gives it the typically unsightly, worn appearance. After around '88 Connolly introduced a new process with smoothed edges on the grain dies and the problem faded away.

If the leather on your car is not grained, then it isn't original. Several aftermarket outfits offered (very expensive) kits which can be spotted for their lack of grain.

Reply to
Gerald G. McGeorge

Here he goes again. This guy is typical of the professional moaners who infest alt.autos. You will find the equivalent in every newsgroup, whatever the make of car. They are best ignored.

Fact is, all makes of car are remarkably reliable these days, but some people just love telling others about their problems. All older cars are likely to be less reliable. Main thing, as always, when buying a used car is the history. If the service book isn't stamped up to date for the first few years of its life and the seller can't give you proof of its recent history, walk away.....however good the car might look. People who care about and look after their cars keep the paperwork. David Betts ( snipped-for-privacy@motorsport.org.uk) The Classic Car Gallery:

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Reply to
David Betts

Excuse me, "Mr Know-It-All", I am not a "professional moaner" re: SIII Jaguars, my opinions are based upon FACTS, which I know from 15 years of dealing with Jaguar issues from inside the Company, and, in the service division I might add!

"Modern" cars? 1984 SIII Jaguars were antiques the minute they rolled out the doors at Browns Lane, and even if its previous owners "kept up the paperwork" (LOL) the thing is a rolling set of very predictable, expensive problems that affected every one of them. We all love these old cars, but anyone thinking of buying one needs to know what they're getting themselves into. If the car hasn't been maintained and repaired on an almost daily basis, and if he's not prepared to do a LOT of very expensive work on it, he's going to be very disappointed. You do the original posted a great disservice by your suggestions.

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Reply to
Gerald G. McGeorge

I tried, but I just can't stay away. :-( "Maintained and repaired on an almost daily basis"? So when does that leave time to rack up the typical 200,000+ miles on the odometer? Sunny days when you've thrown salt over your left shoulder in the morning? I have good maintenance records from the PO, and excellent mileage-by-year info from the state emissions records, and can assure you this car has NOT spent 'almost daily' time in the shop.

And, working for a service department, I'm *sure* that "very expensive work" applies quite well. (I've heard - from the mechanics involved [friends of mine] - what goes on inside dealer service departments. No thank you please, it only makes me sneeze.)

The fact is, that while there *are* some expensive one-off components, many of the parts are readily available and not that expensive. $3 for a tiny little light bulb behind the dash is insane, but how often do you replace them?

I've only just begun my odessy into the maintenance and upkeep of my own cat, but I've done a fair amount of research into what the problems are, why they exist (e.g. inboard brakes), how to prevent them from breaking, and how to fix them if they do. In that regard, the Jaguar world has some of the most comprehensive DIYer resources going. Nor does it hurt that JDHT is apparently manufacturing formerly unavailable parts.

Lastly, the fact is that the Jaguar *is* (with a few exceptions) easy to feed and groom. (I don't own a V12, so I won't go there. ) Posidrive and assorted ills aside, this is relatively good car for those who want to do their own maintenance, but have limited automotive experience (such as myself).

Reply to
William Watson

Whoa - hold on gents - I didn't want to start an argument and please excuse me for doing so. If you trace the thread back - you'll note that I am a SAAB 9000 Turbo flagellant myself and while not as highly thought of or well known as Jaguar - not without tier own challenges..

There's a saying about SAAB: 'Get a good one, you'll smile for every meter of the 400,000kms you will own it. Get a bad one - it'll suck the joy of life out of you before you stick the next man with it - who will in turn curse you until the day one of you dies'.

I am making the leap here that Series 3 Jaguars are the same because there seems to be a fair divergence of opinion. Interestingly - they were usually sold at the same dealerships here in Canada until GM bought them out and did *not* overall improve the brand..

I will say that I might well be able to get it for about $2,800 (Canadian

- around $1,900 USD) and again that the body/paint have been extremely well restored and that the leather is slightly rough as described. The interior and passenger systems seem fine otherwise (except for the trip computer and cruise) and they've replaced one fuel tank recently as well as performed several bits of maintenance around the bay and brake system.

I should again point out that it would be pressed into service as a 'daily driver' in our hands and not 'cherished' in any real way other than keeping her running and rust proofed and I'm going to make the leap based on what I am reading that this is not a good position to put that machine into. Which is fine, just wanted to confirm.

However - at that start price - on average it seems like any older 'performance' machine based on what I've found out here and at the links provided (thanks again for those)..

I think I'll spring the $60 or so it will take to have my wrench meister give it the once over at this point just in case much of what is being outlined has already been done - are any other really important things anyone can think of? Indeed - if a family man was looking for a 4 season Jag - is there a model that anyone can recommend?.

Finally - I am a little worried about the fact it doesn't seem to have much 'umph' on the highway as I would have expected - is that normal or perhaps just a tuning issue?

Thanks and again, sorry if this is the cause of heated words..

Reply to
Dexter J

Typical troll response. Can we all ignore this inadequate self-publicist please. He seems to be infesting every thread at the moment.

David Betts ( snipped-for-privacy@motorsport.org.uk) The Classic Car Gallery:

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Reply to
David Betts

(STOP!) McGeorge, you need to read what he said again. He was talking about SAAB being bought by GM...

Actually, I have seen the quality rise and then fall again. Let see, golly, the new v8 has had a lousy start with many changes made later. I think that the xj40 was the begining of the improvement of this marque, a car that was designed not under FORD, but Leyland (Too little too late).

Learned? Well FORD spends millions to see how they can make things good enough, they hire psychiatrists/social experts to see what repair costs are tollerable. I have been waiting for the Focus, er I mean baby Jag. ;-)

(SNIPPY SNIPPY)

Well McGeorge, what is funny here is that *you* have admitted to being an executive under Leyland. This means that you were a part of the problem at Jaguar. Leyland knew for years of problems and did nothing to fix them. In fact it is known that Leyland took a good engine and created the bad reputation of reliability and sub quality parts. And even though you call that wonderful engine an antique, it can still perform quite well against *Modern engines*, as long as it wasnt assembled out of parts that were rejected by inspectors, which was common as Leyland was losing money. I wont even touch the v12 saga...

It comes down to this - you either got a good one, or you just bought a pariah. Spouting off that "I am an exec" may not have been a wise revelation on your part, it might mean that you were involved in the raping of a good marque. I hope not. Leyland started out on the right foot, but greed ruined almost everything that damned company touched.

DieInterim

Reply to
DieInterim

Could you please be more specific? I mean you must know a whole lot more than gas tanks and rust. How about quality control? Why Leyland choose stone age Lucas over Bosch. What engine problems? The exact differences between models. I would like to hear whay more than a one liner or fragments of knowledge. And what did you do to resolve quality issues?

DieInterim

Reply to
DieInterim

golly, the new v8 has had a lousy start with many changes made> later. I think that the xj40 was the begining of the improvement of this marque, a car that was designed not under FORD, but Leyland (Too little too late). <

You're not SERIOUSLY going to post here that LEYLAND improved Jaguar, are you???? Dear God man, get a grip!!

ANYONE connected with the British motor industry during that period will tell you what a complete disaster Leyland was. Why do you think Triumph, MG, Healy, Rover, Jaguar, etc. either no longer exist or are no longer independent Companies? You think it might be because Leyland didn't know what the Hell they were doing???

executive under Leyland. <

If you knew anything about Jaguar, which apparently you don't, you'd have noticed that I went to work for JCI in the mid-80's. At that time we were an independent Company, free of both the Leyland nightmare and the British Govt.

is known that Leyland took a good engine cyl> and created the bad reputation of reliability and sub quality parts. And even though you call that wonderful engine an antique, it can still perform quite well against *Modern engines*, as long as it wasnt assembled out of parts that were rejected by inspectors, which was common as Leyland was losing money. I wont even touch the v12 saga... <

So, on one hand you say Leyland was better than Ford, then you say Leyland was the root of all evil....

your part, it might mean that you were involved in the raping of a good marque. I hope not. Leyland started out on the right foot, but greed ruined almost everything that damned company touched. <

This isn't worth commenting on, it would be wise for you to read before you opine...

Reply to
Gerald G. McGeorge

than gas tanks and rust. How about quality control? <

What quality control? Before 1987 Jaguar had no quality system in place, and although John Egan tried a rapid implementation of Deming statistical process controls the lack of dicipline and accountability within the organization made it virtually impossible. For God's sake, the design engineers weren't even held accountable for the warranty cost performance of the systems they developed. Ford finally drove accountability and statistical control into the Company. MAny heads rolled between 1989 to

1993. Current Ford Division head Jim Padilla headed up the team that put things right and got everyone working together.
<

I think I passed this test.

Reply to
Gerald G. McGeorge

"Gerald G. McGeorge" wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@enews3.newsguy.com:

Gerald,

Down under we have found away around that seal problem. An engineering friend in our local Jaguar Club, builds a two piece metal cap, followed by a Ford V8 main rear seal, which he cuts in half, and the whole thing replaces the old rope type. Fits straight in and works like a dream. NO leaks.

Ron

Reply to
Ron McGrice

Ron,

Hey, he's shown more ingenuity than most of the old timer engineers! One of the most frustrating things about the whole mess was that regardless the amount of money or number of claims, the information never got back to the powertrain engineers, and even if it did, they weren't responsible for making it right. Bill, Hayden's reign of terror quickly put an end to that dysfunctional scene.

Reply to
Gerald G. McGeorge

Ron, do you have any docs on that solution, and can it be done without removing the engine / tranny?

Reply to
William Watson

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