California Wildfires - San Diego Area

I want to do something to help, but not get in the way at the same time. While driving into the office (Rancho Bernardo - San Diego) this morning, I heard a County Supervisor from the Harbison Canyon area -- and most or the rural parts of the East County -- say that the communities have expressed interest to her to begin the clean up operations. I live in Riverside County but our local fire - the Mountain Fire between Temecula and Hemet - was relatively small by comparison, and the clean up needs are not nearly so great, nor is the devistation so wide. Yes, the devistation is great on a family by family basis, but the sheer magnatude of the disaster is much greater in San Diego.

As we all know, many families own multiple cars and trucks, and when these families are evacuated, some of the cars and trucks get left behind to burn along with the homes. These cars and trucks must be removed from properties all over the community. This need has sparked an interest in me, and I need some guys to show up and help out. My idea is to make contact with the County Supervisor and offer our services to relocate these cars and trucks from the variety of properties where they currently are, and drag them to a central location for easier removal by the tow truck services. My thinking is that the number of tow trucks and other equipment needed for the clean up operations will be so large that they may have difficulty navigating the communities, we can get into tight places and pull the burned out cars and trucks to open areas, say at the end of the street or wherever.

I understand that there must be coodination to get the vehicles from the current owner to the junkyards, and that sort of thing, but this is mostly a logistical issue in the chain of ownership that can be kept organized with a little forethought and planning.

I plan on calling the County Supervisor to volunteer the Jeep community from around San Diego County to come out on Saturday to help out with this effort. I would like to get as many people as I can to form up several teams of three or four Jeeps that can go around and collect these cars and trucks and take them to a central location within the community where the vehicle owners can then arrange for the removal and take care of the insurance issues and so on.

Everybody from the Jeep community that would like to help out, please stay tuned here. Come back here to let me know if you can help out, and we can exchange phone numbers, etc. offline via regular emails.

If you want to help, I would ask that you have tow hooks on both ends of your Jeep, tow straps with loops sewn in the ends, and a length of safety chain. When I have worked to recover abandoned vehicles from the local watershed areas, I found that the vehicles frequently needed to have the safety chain secured to the frame, then the tow strap connected to the chain. The problem is the tow straps tied directly to the frame often encountered sharp edges that cut the straps. Safety chains are generally frowned upon in a recovery operation, but I think that they can safely be employed here because the loads will be relatively low in most cases. I am thinking that each team will need a safety chain of about 4 to 6 ft in length, and a couple of good fasteners (D rings, etc.) to tie around the frame of the vehicles that will provide a rounded edge for the tow straps to tie-off on. Each Jeep should have a CB radio, but at least one Jeep in each team is all that really needs a radio. I don't know how well the cell phones will work where the fires have gone through.

It would be really cool if somebody among us has the logistical skills to set up the storage lot and keep the vehicles organized so the owners can keep track of their property that we will be moving about.

As of this moment, this is a plan that might not come together, but I would ask that you pencil it onto your calendars, and then be prepared to ink it at the drop of a hat. The clean up area that we will be going into will be the rural areas south and east of El Cajon. Astually, the areas we wil be needed is really up to the County Supervisor, and other higher level planners. I have heard that Harbison Canyon is in need of clean up, certainly there are other areas too.

At this point, all I am needing is a list of names that might be able to help out if I can get us into the areas where we can be used.

Reply to
CRWLR
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I noble idea, but it has a few problems. Burned vehicles may need to be inspected by insurance companies where they are, and then cleared by the county for removal. Vehicles without tires will damage the ground, or pavement when dragged. Erosion is going to be a major problem this winter. Burned vehicles are still private property, and you dont want to assume the liability of paying back fees, etc, by taking posession. Whose insurance pays if you are hurt ? There are probably many other issues that an attorney could tell you of.

That said, there are many people who have lost everything. I am sending a few crates of clothing and toys down to my Dad for distribution, but these people will mostly need shelter, and food. Tents, motorhomes, and trailers could give these people a place to live. Shipping containers could be easily converted into portable, temporary housing by anyone with a sawzall or torch. From what I have seen here, it can take 6 months or more before insurance companies start sending out checks, so construction probably wont start until mid 04 for most of them. Inviting a homeless family into your home could be the most humane thing to do.

Reply to
Paul Calman

another thought, i have seen nothing about finding long-term housing for these refugees. The red cross and united way are fairly self-serving. Perhaps someone down there could set up an "adopt a family" program?

Reply to
Paul Calman

This is perhaps the most critical factor. The insurance companies will want to be involved, but they can probably walk around the impromptu storage yard to look at the claims made against the vehicles. The county will already be involved in the process, and it can take a few weeks for the removal to a county authorized site to actualy occur. The community has said that they need to have the cars and trucks removed from the yards, and this is where I can help. I can move the property from where it is presenting problems and reloacte it temporarily to another site where it can complete the removal process.

Erosion will be probematic, for sure. But a few scratches in the ground from dragging a vehicle a few hundred yards isn't going to change that problem very much.

I am not taking possession. I am merely helping to clear a vehicle from a site where it is a problem to another site where it is less of a problem. The owner will still maintain ownership interest, and he will still be making his insurance claims. I just think that it might be useful to the community to have these vehicles moved off of the properties where they are scattered about the community and placed on a few selected sites where the insurance inspectors can do whatever they do. Remember, the claim is 100%, there is no pretending that I will be moving a car or truck that might ever be put back together.

I guess I will pay my own. We do this sort of thing all the time, and take the risks associated with doing it.

The County Supervisor is actively participating in the process, so I don't think most of this will be a huge issue.

Reply to
CRWLR

Reply to
L.W.(ßill)

This is not my problem, it is somebody else's problem.

All I want is a few volunteers to help out, the county can do the rest. They have already said this project is a concern, and they are already working to resolve the concerns. All I am wanting to do is help bring a bunch of scattered crap that is spread over a wide area in inaccessable locations, and bring the crap to a place that can be accessed lateer by the much larger vehicles it will take to solve the problem.

I am waiting on the County to get in touch to see if they even want this sort of volunteer activity. If they want it, I want to have some people together that is ready to respond to the need.

Reply to
Jeff Strickland

This is interesting, I have been posting from the same computer all day long, and some posts are shown with my name, and some are shown as CRWLR. Hmmm ...

Reply to
CRWLR

Approximately 10/30/03 12:54, CRWLR uttered for posterity:

... queue theme from Twilight Zone...

Reply to
Lon Stowell

Reply to
L.W.(ßill)

L.W.(ßill) Hughes III spake thusly in news: snipped-for-privacy@cox.net:

Man, that sounds authentic! Like it was recorded on an 8-track deck off the TV speaker of a Zenith 17" B&W in 1967... and aged 35 years!!

-Fred W

Reply to
FredW

Reply to
L.W.(ßill)

Reply to
L.W.(ßill)

Let the finger pointing begin? KH

Reply to
Kevin in San Diego

I'll grant that the hunter who started the one fire because he was lost is an complete idiot, and deserves a little time to think about it, but the Forestry and Fire Depts. have been predicting something like this for 25 years. The city would rather shove a baseball stadium down you throat and waste money on pro sports than do something of benefit to the community, like maintaining fire breaks.

BTW, one car collector I know lost 15 "true" classic cars and his home. My Dad is currently storing trailers full of the possessions of a few who lost homes.

Reply to
Paul Calman

The environmentalist lobbies share the blame for not keeping the fire breaks maintained. The CDF will be investigated for not allowing the Navy to bring in firefighting crews in the very earliest stages of this disaster when most of our own crews were working the fire lines in San Bernardino and northern Los Angeles. We needed to send our crews to those areas because they were having very serious fires for nearly a week before the fires broke out here, but when we couldn't get our guys back in time, and the Navy crews were available, the CDF pulled some sort of crap out of their hat that the Navy was not trained to fight fires with helicopters. Frankly, I think it is the job of the Navy to decide if its crews are up to speed on fighting forest/brush fires. The CDF needs to be sure that Bob's Helicopter Service is certified, and they have valid concerns that Bob's crews have good equipment and adequate training, but the Navy (and Department of Defense) should be a trusted source of firefighting crews, and the CDF erred significantly in not using this resource immediately. Indeed, the CDF erred in not looking to the DoD to help them in this statewide disaster.

The hunter that started the Cedar Fire share all of the popularity as the guy that got in the way of the Cubs during the baseball playoffs, but the guy that is in real trouble is the arsonist that deliberately set the fire in San Bernardino.

Reply to
CRWLR

We have a C-130 reserve outfit here in Colorado Springs with something like 6 birds equipped with drop kits and crews trained to handle them. There are 2 problems that need to be kept in mind, tho. The first is that the local fire commander has to request them - that's a human problem with no ready solution. The other problem is a 1930's era federal law that prohibits the use of militarty resources until all civilian commercial resources are exhausted. Talking to some of the pilots here, that seems to be a huge problem. The time for a request to clear the buracracy seems to be measured in days while the response time of the crews and the equipment was something like 4 hours from 'Go' in Colorado to dropping retardant in California. One more way your friendly government looks out for you...

Reply to
Will Honea

Approximately 10/31/03 18:21, Will Honea uttered for posterity:

Latest is that copies of the written request to the fed gov't to allocate FEMA funds to get rid of the massive dead trees in a couple of the fire areas *before* the fires started are now surfacing. A mere few hundred million in FEMA funds allegedly could have prevented a few billion in damages, plus unfortunately the deaths.

Reply to
Lon Stowell

The only good that can come of this tragedy is that 1) Rep. Scott McInnis "Healthy Forests Initiative" will be passed by Congress *without more obstruction from the green-baiting Democrats) and 2) the environmental community will get their well deserved comeuppance for having spent years blocking any attempt to treat the forests before stuff like this happens.

Here in Durango, CO we had a massive wildfire last year that burned for 4 weeks. The environmentalists used the courts to block every attempt to thin the incredible overgrowth in the San Juan National Forest. When it exploded no one was surprised, and the environmentalists went and hid.Their next moves were to attempt to block several BLM management plans on adjacent acreage near subdivisions, then they tried to stop all salvage logging of the burnt timber, preferring that the entire areas be closed to all access for decades due to unsafe conditions.

The Feds are not responding responsibly to the clear an present danger that exists in Western forests. Again, our thoughts are with all of the folks in Southern California. An incredible disaster that didn't have to happen if people of common sense could just be allowed to do their jobs.

Reply to
Gerald G. McGeorge

It's ridiculous... truly ridiculous... to think California could have cleaned out those millions of dead trees in the couple of months it was since the request for funding to do so was sent to Washington. The outcome would have been the same had it been approved because of the short time involved. It's asinine and ridiculous to think they could have cut down millions of dead trees in that time frame. Even if it had been approved, Davis or some other bureaucrat would have likely either dragged their feet starting the clearing or hijacked the money to give to some other pet project.

Don't try some lame attempt to blame Washington D.C. on the outcome of the fire.

Jerry

Reply to
Jerry Bransford

I blame the lack of rain and the windy conditions. Finger pointing shall begin though, no matter what. I can only hope it turns out that we get a better system in the long run. Thank god my family survived. I truly feel sorry for the people who have lost property and even worse, loved ones. All the finger pointing in the world wont change that. KH

Reply to
Kevin in San Diego

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