Liberty diesel...when?

Oh great, that is all we need more smog.

Curt

Diesel??? Why would anyone with a choice want that rattling, clattering smoking low output engine anyway? Let me guess, you need it to tow heavy trailers with liberty... right?

From what I understand, the newer turbo diesels are a lot better... Better acceleration, horsepower, plus you get the low end torque for pulling a trailer... When my I-6 finally goes out on my '95 XJ, I'm tempted to put a Detroit Diesel 4.0L engine in it... It'll still give me 180 or so horsepower, but the torque should be great for towing a trailer... I guess it'll depend upon what the price of gasoline is at that point compared to diesel fuel... Diesels have been more popular in Europe than here in the US since there is more of a price difference in diesel fuel vs autogas...

There's some development going on these days to make a light weight reliable diesel engine for aircraft... If my engine had not been recently overhauled, I would be tempted to wait for one of them... The ability to run Jet-A or diesel fuel is quite a fuel savings... Especially over in Europe where 100LL is quite a bit more expensive that Jet-A... In some ways, a diesel is more practical for an aircraft since it only has 3 speeds it really operates at -- idle speed while on the ground, takeoff speed, and cruising speed... Diesel fuel contains more energy per pound of fuel and weighs slightly more per gallon... Combining this with a better fuel efficiency equates to longer range...

What do you mean diesels are impractical? If it wasn't for the smog, I would be driving one. I test drove the TDI Jetta and it is awesome. Plenty fast and gets amazing mileage. I would have bought one for my daily, but I can't live with the smog situation. It is just too much. I live in Pittsburgh and really don't want to add to the situation here. I also email Volkswagen to find out it there is anything I could do with the exhaust to make it better. They told me no.

I had a Mercedes 190 td 2.5 years ago. It was plenty fast and got great mileage. I think they are great for every day use if they didn't pollute so much. Lets face it......they stink and pollute too much. As far as how the US views diesels it is justified. Detroit put diesels in cars in the 70's and they were converted gas motors. What a joke. They were garbage. The Germans make great diesels.

Curt

I have a 190D right now. It gets nearly 30 mpg and has 225K miles on the odometer. It still runs clean too, no black clouds. I didn't know that the

190 came with a Turbo? Mines the 2.5L KH

Let me start this post off on a good note and tell you that having driven a TurboDiesel sedan for 13 years, you are full of shit. I drove mine into places that had never even seen a car like mine, and put lots of highway miles on it. Yes, it wouldn't burn the tires off the line (automatic), but mine got moving pretty damned quickly. (My previous car had been a 280ZX, so I had a pretty good idea of off-line acceleration). No, I wouldn't own one w/o a turbo, but the turbodiesel is an ideal combination.

Too costly to fix? If you ignore a waterpump & alternator, which are actually ancillary items, I can say that my Turbodiesel cost me about $100 in 13 years, and that was to finally replace the injector tips, which I did for free at my local Mercedes dealer. (Show me a gas engine that can go for 13 years w/o a plug change.)

Smelly? Hell, I LOVE the smell of diesel fuel compared to the sickening smell of many catalytic equiped gas cars. As for smoking, a well designed diesel that's properly run will not smoke. I NEVER saw smoke from my diesel, but followed many a Mercedes diesel that smoked like a banshee. The only visible exhaust I got was when I started cold - even at 80 degrees my diesel emitted what looked like smoke untill it warmed up a bit - that was not smoke, but raw unburned diesel fuel (white in color)

Gas stations - even the most remote locations in the US have diesel pumps. My car actually came with a map of many stations that sold diesel just in case, but I never needed it, and I traveled to some real "bumbfu*k" out of the way places.

Oh yeah, you're probably wondering what I had, huh? It was a 1981 Peugeot

505STD with their XDS diesel engine, AiResearch Turbo, Bosch mechanical injection. You were right on 1 point - The car went to the grave because the body rusted to pieces.

all because some soccer-mom thinks the toxins are heavier in the black exhaust.

But you can always get the motor off dino-fuel, and burn biodiesel... your jeep will smell like burning deepfryer grease, but it's a small price to pay.

How about the added weight associated with a true diesel? The Wrangler is already getting rather porky at 3400 lbs, but with a diesel, it'll be a lard ass.

Yes, but when they do need work, it can get costly.

Let's seperate the facts from fiction here. Yes, they are reliable. However, they don't like cold weather and you need to keep them warm if you want to start them the next morning, and when they do need work, it can get costly as the parts aren't readily available and only a fraction of trained mechanics are trained to work on diesels.

Secondly, have you went down to a local gas station that isn't located next to a highway? They usually don't carry diesel. I drive a diesel truck daily for trips up to 150 miles away and I have to keep track of which BP stations off the highway carry diesel so I know where I can gas up. From my work, there are 3 stations nearby and only one of them has diesel and it's the one by the highway. We've had trucks run out of gas before because they didn't pay attention to the guage and the only stations nearby where they realized they were getting low didn't carry diesel. You have to plan your refueling so that you don't get into such a mess. With gasoline, you can fill up anywhere.

There's one company that has a certified engine and and STC for certain Cessnas and Pipers that I know of... There's a couple of other companies that are currently developing certified engines... Lycomming is working on a diesel also... The thing is, diesels have been traditionally rather heavy and that is not something that you want in an aircraft... Making a diesel that is lightweight and reliable is not a trivial endeavor...

Oh, and that's supposed to be better than spewing burned diesel fuel? Give me a break.

Diesels stink and they are noisy. Leave them in Europe where they belong.

it would be heavier for sure, but I doubt it would be heavier than the I6.

Dave Milne, Scotland '99 TJ 4.0 Sahara

: > Besides, this is for a 4x4 - exactly when a torquey diesel and water : > resistance is useful. : : How about the added weight associated with a true diesel? The Wrangler is : already getting rather porky at 3400 lbs, but with a diesel, it'll be a : lard ass.

Very.

I routinely started mine in Upstate NY in the Winter with NO heater. While mine came with a 400 watt block heater, I only used it when the temp dipped below 0 degrees, and then I had it on a timer for only 2 hours of heat. I had no place to plug it in while I was working, so even in 20-30 below zero, it had to start cold. The coldest weather would only require double-firing the glow plugs, which were an 11 second time-out. I had a friend with a Diesel Rabbit who didn't even fire his glow-plugs in the Summer!

Look at the sales figures for heavy duty pickups. The "Big 3" are selling a lot of diesels. Who works on them? If a Diesel is designed right, it shouldn't need maint. for years... Look at mine - No maint for almost 13 years, and even then, my injectors were still in reasonably good condition

Maybe where YOU live. Here, the majority of stations have a Diesel pump, and I'm in a pretty much rural area, the only "major" highway being about 10 miles away (US90).

BP eh? Sounds like Canada. I worked in Newfoundland when I had my Peugeot - up in Sidney and down in Barrington - no problems getting diesel - of course, the Peugeot probably got better milage than your truck, being only a 1.7L.

Correction to my previous post - I had the XD2S diesel engine.

GREASEL I've been checking out their site every now and then. I wonder what the exhaust would smell like if all you had was Olive Oil to use? :P

You must have read it wrong. At any given dealership there is only a fraction of them trained to work on diesels. Diesels require special training. Most mechanics can do routine things, but if you need to fix one, you need a diesel mechanic. Granted, they are _very_ reliable. But even the most reliable engines get problems occasionally.

Then YOU must live where a lot of truck traffic rolls through or in a country where diesel cars are more common.

The company uses a BP credit card and therefore I have to use BP or Amoco unless there's none around. Then I have to use my own money and get refunded from the office.