New TJ REAL price?

Chuck did pass the time by typing:

Dealer price is a weird animal. It includes holdback, incentives, and a slew of other things.

Your best bet is a local bank or credit union. They have books on car prices. But take your calculator, each option has to be added.

The other way is to check KBB (Kelly Bluebook) for last years price data and figure what percent the markup is.

If your looking to buy, get close to the tax date (Dec/Jan) IIRC. The dealerships have to pay tax on inventory at that time and you can squeeze them with that. It's either sell it to you at a lower price or take a tax hit and loose money for sure. :) That's how I negotiated my ZJ.

Last but not least. It is YOUR money. Negotiate from a position of strength and be prepared to walk away. Line up finances first and play that against dealer financing. Everything is negotiable. Keep the trade-in and financing seperate from the price till the end.

One last thing... :) ok. another last thing. Negotiate the field service manual (FSM) into the price. They charge 60-90 but it's worth about 10$ wholesale to them.

One last last thing... :D IF you have a trade-in, clean it up.. under the hood, everywhere. Put some touchup paint, wax it, change the oil. And take it in near dusk so it looks the best. All is fair in used car dealership and your playing the part of the sleazy cigar puffing plaid polyester suit wearing honest car salesman. ;)

At the risk of giving up secrets, the one(s) that are advertised for the cheapest price are the ones with the VIN number in the ads, and the reason they can offer them for the advertised price is the factory gives them a special kickback applicable to those VIN numbers only. So, if you find an identical (or even less optioned) vehicle than the one in the ad, the dealer will have to charge you more.

What you need to do is to get up at 5 AM on Friday, go get the newspaper, find the dealership that was what you want, and be there at the door when they open. If you are lucky, they will still have the VIN number advertised.

Thanks to all who have responded already. I know the dealer doesn't pay the price shown on the invoice. There are a slew of unlisted discounts that do not show on the invoice or are cut off before the dealer shows you the invoice. Does anyone know where to find the actual price paid by the dealer?

I don't really care if the dealer makes $15,000 or $1,500 or $150 on the sale, as long as they sell at a price I can/will live with.

-- HAV-A-GOOD 1

Chuck

Chuck did pass the time by typing:

Only the dealers accountant knows that.

Approximately 9/29/03 14:47, DougW uttered for posterity:

And sometimes not until after the dealer has sold the jeep if there are factory incentives, old model incentives, holdbacks, etc.

If you don't care what the dealer makes and you have the money it all depends on what you want to pay. You have the power and if you walk you have even more power. Let them call you - and they will if you are resonable and make them thow in all the extras when they agree to a price.

Not so, Grasshopper. I bought my Ford truck and salesman worked off their actual cost. I simply let them know at the start that I knew they did not pay the price on the invoice and that I didn't care what was on the invoice statement they showed me.

It worked. I got mine for $1560 less than invoice and they still made money. You just have be determined and courteous.

-- HAV-A-GOOD 1

Chuck

I didn't fight to the top of the food chain to be a vegetarian

Exactly, You go in with a preset payment and term and see if the dealer can do a deal.

-- HAV-A-GOOD 1

Chuck

Chuck did pass the time by typing:

As I said, only the dealers accountant knows the actual number. You didn't comprehend the question or the answer. The question was "actual price" and that is only determined after all incentives and paybacks etc are calculated. Several of those numbers including sales quota bonus are only paid after the dealership hits a certain number of sales for a particular model.

Sorry, I asked the original question. I asked for a precise answer to a non precise question. I was looking for an idea of what the DC dealer was paying so I could know where to start at in negotiating the sale price.

-- HAV-A-GOOD 1

Chuck

Chuck did pass the time by typing:

np. I'm just being a grouch today. Crappy weather is keeping me from finishing up the projects I took today off for. :/

The dealerships make it all guess work for a reason. The best aproach I've read about and used was going to the bank and getting their price book. Using that as a starting point, then knocking off about 8% for holdback. I also checked last years prices vs KBB prices for the same vehicle and took that number right off the top.

I should add, the markup depends on vehicle demand. Lower demand vehicles may not have more than 2-3% markup. Things like Vipers may have up to a 200% markup just because they know the consumer will pay it.

Try here

Despite what Consumer Reports wants you to believe, invoice is indeed the price at which MOST cars are sold to dealers, particularly those in high demand. However, when things get slow in the marketplace, or a particular model is in an over supply situation, then manufacturers will throw incentive money at the problem in the form of dealer rebates, up front cash, "0%" financing rates, etc. etc.to assist the dealers in moving the products out. Dealers don't work on consignment, they finance their own inventories (called a "floor plan"), generally through local banks or the auto mfrs' finance subsidiaries. So, if the thing sits around it's not only losing asset value as a commodity, it's costing the dealer daily interest to just look at it.

Factory incentive money is referred to as "money in the trunk" in the auto industry. It's a play on a common retailing tactic to incentivise the market, it's not just a car industry thing.

So, what do you pay? Well, if you want something is short supply and hot on the market, you'll pay over sticker for the privilege of owning it. If it's a marketplace turkey that not even your dead uncle would be seen in, then they may PAY YOU to take it of their hands. Depends upon what it is and how emotional you want to be with the purchase.

Hey McFly! Upgraded my email software and haven't entered my filtering yet. You still haven't purchased a Rubi at $100 over with all that "knowledge"? You remind me of my neighbor. He has to change a lightbulb so he breaks out the book and goes by it. However the book tells him to screw the lightbulb, he does. Whatever the book tells him to pay for the bulb, he pays. Think OUTSIDE the box, McFly, or forever pay the piper.

There are people who paid ADM for a Miata, there are those who didn't. There are people who paid ADM for a Boxster, there are those who didn't. There are people who paid ADM for a Z3, there are those who didn't. There are people who paid ADM for a Rubicon, there are those who didn't.

Should I guess which category you'd be > Despite what Consumer Reports wants you to believe, invoice is indeed the

There are no cut and dried fixed numbers because of unadvertised "factory to dealer incentives," but even those are listed on Edmund's site,

, under "incentives and rebates". I've never heardof any VIN specific pricing offered to dealers, but you never know. You canget all the basic pricing info at Edmund's or at the Kelly Blue Bookwebsite.

When I worked for GM the "real price" was based on dealer invoice, minus a

3% holdback, minus any dealer incentives. GM's MSRP was also pretty much set by invoice as well. It depended on the specific GM car/truck line, but for GMC trucks the MSRP for the truck was marked up 16% above the base price and 18% for the options, plus the destination fee (the dealer gets no discount for destination fee). I never worked for Chrysler, but most American MFR's work the same way.

The $199 a month payment sometimes isn't a bargain! Most times it's for a balloon note or a longer-term than normal (up to 80 months!). NEVER NEGOTIATE A VEHICLE DEAL ON PAYMENTS!!!!!!! You WILL get screwed. Example: About 10 years ago I had a customer come in and buy based on payment alone.. He had a fairly recent late model trade that was paid off. He wanted to buy two new cars, and had $600-odd dollars a month budgeted. He ended up with a new Bonneville and a Sunbird at his required payment for 60 months....Sound good? Actually, he paid full MSRP on both cars and got ZERO for his trade. At the end of the 60 months he owed something in the neighborhood of $8,000 for the final payment under the GM "Smartbuy" program. I made a lot of money as a salesman when customers wanted a set payment, but deals like that made me feel guilty...I changed professions soon after.

WARNING: Unless you kow what the current rates are, and how good your credit is, be wary of the finance guys. If you have "gold" credit, you shouldn't pay much for interest.. Some MFR's have a rate/rebate option often it's a better deal to take the low-rate finance. The dealer can mark up interest rates as well though. Say you qualify for a 7% rate from DC Financial...the dealer can try to get you to agree to a 10% rate, and he gets the extra back from the finance company every month.

RB

Amazing how you can pay $2X,000 for something, and everyone cries that they're not making any money on the deal. Right.