Opinions on Fram Toughguard oil filters?

Heya Bill!

Hmm on the subject of sludge... I was thinking about that today... considering the pushrod problem... and I live in a sandy environment... wiped a bunch of sandy crap off the surface inside the valve cover where the oil cap seals today... engine has 176k on it... any way to detect and/or remove the sludge short of an engine overhaul?

It runs real nice now but there is some sludge in the valve cover and i imagine also elsewhere I can't see... any of the bottled stuff that actually works and won't kill my gaskets? I changed the oil again today after only two weeks due to the radiator problem yesterday. Oil was a bit darker than I expected, but that may be a good thing. Maybe it's cleaning some of it out. Maybe change oil and filter every 1k miles or something like that? I think I'm about due for a new oil pan too... getting rusty. Might pull the valve cover again and high-pressure wash it as well and throw in a new gasket.

Btw I put valvoline 10w 30 in it. We have hot summers so I'm leery of the 5w

30 stuff.

After all of this I think I'm still under $500 or so. Now I gotta figure if I want to tackle the body work to kill the rust and make it presentable or farm it out to a body shop..

Fram no longer has a good reputation, at least not what it used to be. It's not a brand that I will use in my TJ. Lots of good filters available that are far better... AC-Delco Duraguard, Purolator PureOne, Wicks, Mobil-1, K&N... I use either AC-Delco's Duraguard or Purolator's PureOne, whichever I can find because they both did very well in the filter tests I've read over the years.

Jerry

Find a shop with a Bilstien engine flush machine. It'll flush everywhere oil can go (using pressurized heated chemicals in a closed loop, from the oil filler hole to the drain plug). When it's done fill with Mobil 1 which will clean out anything that's left, running synthetics will basically eliminate sludge by keeping it from happening in the first place.

I'll chime in for a change. Frams are okay if you buy the Toughguard models. The regular ones apparently are crap.

But the Jeep 4.0 (not sure about the 2.5) has the same problem as the Mopar Slant Six. The filter is "upside down" and has a natural tendancy to drain back the oil overnight, leading to a dry start in the morning if the anti drainback valve fails.

I have lots more years experience with the Slant Six than the Jeep 4.0. I know that the AC-Delco supposedly has a very good anti-drainback valve design, but I have NEVER had one that kept oil in the filter overnight after the first week or so. I stopped buying them about 7 years ago specifically for this problem. I have experienced the same problem with the regular Fram filters, but only twice. Perhaps AC has changed over the years, but they lost my business. There's nothing worse than having to pull a dripping filter a week after you thought you had finished the nasty oily stuff for a while. Not to mention the $.

I now buy Purolater exclusively and have never had a problem. Unfortunately, this has delayed a few oil changes as Pep Boys is the only store that carrys them and they are usually out of the one for the Jeep. I guess word got around.

Regards,

DAve

snip snip

Yes for my Jeeps, I also use the blue Purolators (Premium?) oil filters and I also have to stock up when I see them on Pep Boys shelves esp. if on sale! AFAIK The standard Purolator and the Pep Boy "Pro-Line" are supposed to be the same filters. ;-)

dave AKA vwdoc1

I have an 02 X, and it's filter is on the side of the block, not upside down, just sideways like most other cars.

Patrick ?Ô

What about Mopar oil filters? Are they any good? I use them exclusively as they're about the same price or less than Crappy Tire's premium filters

Jerry Bransford wrote:

Yeah, Skip, my perception is that the name brand filters are the way to go. The key word here is PERCEPTION. I don't have any data to support that. Speaking of oil: When I bought my '78 Cherokee w/258 new, I drove it home, drained the oil and put Mobile one in it. Every 1000 miles I would take off the filter, pour what I could from the filter back into the crankcase, then put on a new filter and top off the oil. It now has ~ 130K miles on it. Hard, stop and go miles. I replaced the lifters a few years ago and that was the only time I've ever changed the oil. The valve train was SPOTLESS, no sludge, no nothing, just a light coating of Mobile one. I just ordered an '04 Rubicon, and am thinking of using the same procedure with that.

Lloyd

Well, you said it...

You had a dead engine before 100 K miles.

Most folks get 200 to 300K before they have to do engine work on the

258's or 4.0's.

Your method obviously doesn't work at all....

Oil builds up contaminants from combustion and needs to be changed on a regular schedule no matter how fancy the oil....

Mike

86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

Lloyd Hann>

I have this silly tendency to read my owners manuals for my vehicles.

Both of my Jeeps state to check the oil cold first thing in the morning before starting the engine.

This gives lots of time for the oil to drain down.

Mike

86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

Skip wrote:

Mopar has a good reputation from what I have heard.

I am even running Mopar wires in my CJ7 (and Cherokee I think).

Mike

86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

FrankW wrote:

I would def> Oil builds up contaminants from combustion and needs to be changed on a

I'm not an oil expert but I did do a lot of reading on synthetics in preparation to recommending them (or not) to be used in the fleet vehicles of the company I work for.

As I understand it pure synthetics like Mobil 1 do not have the same sort of interaction that dino oil does in the combustion chamber, it never gets the "varnish" that eventually turns into sludge. In addition it is extremely good as devolving away any sludge that already exists (if you're putting it in an engine that is already sludged up). Basically dino oil no matter how well it's refined has organic matter that burns at combustion temps, the oil traps it and most of it is too small to get filtered eventually like sediment it ends up in nooks and crannies, and you eventually get clogged oil galleys sludged up valves etc. Synthetics don't produce the combustion by products in the first place.

However it does have additives that become less effective over time just like dino oil, and that is why it's generally recommended to change it and the filter at normal 3000 miles intervals, even though it may look just as clear as the day you put it in there.

It is also considered much better for hard driving (towing and off-road) tends to leave a good layer of oil on parts that dino oil drains off of faster (in terms of start up friction). This is supposedly where pure synthetics add most of their wear reduction benefit. It has a much lower friction coefficient at startup and remains much slicker while warming up until more is pulled up and is flowing into all the vital spots.

Virtually ALL the automotive market filters are IDENTICAL in retention performance. Its not the fancy paint job on the canister nor the marketing hype that retains particulate but the resinated filtration media inside the filter. Since ALL filter manufacturers PURCHASE the filter media from essentially the SAME paper mills (depending on the best price at the time) how can there be any difference?

If the filtration media is essentially the same, the ONLY functional difference of importance is the **internal surface area of the filter media**. So.... if you want the BEST filter, buy the LARGEST (cheapest) filter that will fit. .... and change it often.

All the automotive filter comparisons on the 'web' are quite 'laughable' on a technical basis and do not compare actual particullate performance nor retention ability. If you want the BEST, buy the LARGEST that will fit, but cheap and often.

This is recirculation filtration (if the particle doesnt get trapped the first time, it will get captured the next pass or the next, etc. etc. etc.. If you had enough volume or surface area, you could use compressed pubic hair as the filtration media to do the exact same retention job.!!!!!!!!!!

respectfully submitted by a 'filtration' engineer.

Not to pick on anyone in particular on this value NG but..........

Cummins and other engine manufacturers dont make filters, they buy private branded filters made by one of the several filter mills. The filter manufacturers dont make the filter media, they buy the filter media from one of few paper mills that make resinated paper filter media. All the **hype*** about which is best filter is unfortunate nonsense when comparing true particle retention and efficiency. I offer that the 'websites' offering filter compariosn are probably established by slick marketing types who want to steer you towards their particular client by reinforcing you gullibility to 'brand loyalty'.

Especially in a recirculation filtration mode such an oil recirc. in an engine, the faster, larger, cheaper (which you change more often) filter will do the BEST job.

just an observation of a filtration engineer.

May I suggest a 'better way'

1. sludge/varnish removal: Drain dino oil, fill crankcase with "Marvel Mystery OIl", run at no load for short period of time, shut down and let 'soak' for 8 hours, drain and save MMO. Fill with dino oil and add 5-10% MMO to crankcase oil.

1. Add MMO to fuel to eliminate carbon build up in ring grooves - 'top oil' the engine.

2. Cold Start wear: Install a pressure oiler.