Opinions on Fram Toughguard oil filters?

I hear if you put Mobil 1 into a high miles engine it will introduce leaks in the seals...

Opinions???

OK, then let me offer the facts that such oil filters will (or wont) qualify for compliance of the ASTM standard "OSU F-2 test stand" for a beta reduction value of ~100 (logrithm of the influent versus effluent particles) at rated particles per micron (micrometer) size. OSU being an acronymn for Oklahoma State University who designed the currently acccepted oil filter test stand methodology. If such a manufacturer (or rebranded labeler) woudnt comply to these 'industry' standards, then those in competition would be as visciously vocal as Howard Dean versus Kerry, Edwards, Clark, the rest of world, etc.

With respect to 'recirculation' filtration the filter media of a more 'open' (larger) retention size will operate under less differential pressure (remaining laminar in throughput) hence filtering a vastlly greater total thoughput and particle capture (on a weight basis) per 'lifetime'. That the larger retention media's capability is larger does not mean less capture effeciency as it still has smaller particle retention capability at a lesser %; but, since is can handle MORE volumetric flow, the net effect of particle removal (per size) will be faster turnover to the desired resident particle distribution that is deemed non-injurious to the bearing, etc. clearances, etc. ... where the typical base line or resident particles deemed to be sufficiently small and non-injurious are at ~1/5 the diameter of the smallest 'equivalent' orfice of the system to be protected - electrostatic 'bridging' of the particles being a principal source of plugging, scoreing, etc.

Since the principal function of a hydrodynamic bearing ( oil served plain journal) is to provide 'lift' versus the developed hydrodynamic pressure, the effect of particulate at less than 1/5 the operational bearing clearance is small, hence recirculating oil filtration can be quite 'coarse' and still do a reasonable job of extraneous wear protection.

how's that?

;-)

in

Yup, for sure.

Some turn into pin cushions.

If the engine is totally dry, it might be ok, but if the engine is seeping anywhere, forget it.

Mike

86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

Skip wrote:

Skip did pass the time by typing:

What putting a synthetic into an engine will do is break down gunk that may be providing a seal and allow some oil to leak through. This is an indication you need to fix the seal or rebuild since engine seals shouldn't rely on crud to prevent leaks.

yeah that was my thought...

But when I had my SAE 'ticket' the root source that information was acceptance of the ASTM OSU-F2 method. The beta value given is beta=100 @ 20uM.

;-)

From a practical standpoint, If your engine is in that condition, there's no point wasting money on expensive synthetic oil, is there?

You're better off sticking with regular oil until a rebuild is required.

Regards,

DAve

In the mid-70s I used to drive a UK-market Lancia Beta 2000. The "correct" oil filter for it was very hard to get hold of and also expensive. By trawling the filter manufacturers catalogues I was able to establish that the same filter was listed as an alternative for one of the engines the in use in the European Ford Transit van. The standard filter for this was widely available and _way_ cheaper than the Lancia part. Also considerably bigger. This car ran with the van engine filter for the rest of its life. The body rusted away before the engine wore out, but then it WAs a 70's Lancia :-)

SteveM

The beauty of my 258 is that it is held together with crude and still keeps running. Its like a yard full of weeds; if you keep them cut they look like grass. I usually switch out some of the crude in my 258 every 3 or 4 thousand miles and it stills looks good from the outside.

Dan Ferrell 84 CJ-7

Certainly

What exactly is in Marvel Mystery Oil that is so special that it's been around for so long, and yet none of the major players add it to their oil?

BTW if it's a "mystery" then what basis does an "filtration engineer" recomend it?

Doesn't water or ATF accomplish this? Pardon me for sounding a bit sceptical but I'm leary of "mystery" additives that are being recomended for multiple, unrelated tasks. I've definitely seen MMO recomended by a lot of people for various uses, but I still wonder...

I'll stick with synthetics here, I'm not anal enough about startup wear to start bolting things on.

If you're relying on sludge to keep oil in the engine, then you've got bigger problems than what oil to use. :)

I wouldn't look at it as "in effect causing a leak" I would look at it as in effect showing you a leak so you can fix it (or get it fixed) before the leak leaves you on the side of a road with a seized engine.

To me any leak that shows up because synthetic oil cleaned the sludge that was blocking it, is a small price to pay for knowing that it will never sludge up again. Not to mention that it diagnosed an existing leak for me (hypothetically speaking; because I've never seen an oil leak occur, or get worse after putting synthetics in).

I have had Mobil 1 in 6 or 7 vehicles and my 88 YJ and haven't seen any leakage, or increase in leakage in the case of one Dodge pickup (very minor rear main leak that has stayed very minor). Or my Boss' YJ (which leaked like a sieve before I switched it to synthetics, and still leaks the same amount about 1 quart per 200 miles after the switch).

I put mobil 1 in my YJ when I bought it at 189000 miles not leaking oil and it still doesn't leak oil at 194000 or so miles. If it didn't leak in the first place, it shouldn't leak afterwards. See the oem website for this. The oil was changed every 3000 miles by the PO so I guess it all depends on who owned it and how they maintained it.