REGEARING TO 4.11 FROM 3.07

Oh goodness. I am sooo confused. What is the difference/benefit/etc. of totally changing out the Dana 30/35 for the Dana 44s (other than the stronger axles)? Won't you get the same effect if you keep the original Dana's and just upgrade the gears to 4.11s? I don't do any heavy off-roading at all, and don't ever intend to upgrade my tires to any bigger than a 33" tire. I also do not intend to lift my rig more than 4 inches (I am leaning on a 3.5 RE lift). What is the overall benefit of the stronger axles of the D44s? Now the other confusion is mentioned in my previous post regarding the difference in limited slip vs. locking. I do a lot of snow driving and a lot of highway driving if it helps.

My CJ7 came stock with the D30 front and the D44 rear.

There is no such thing as switching D35 axles with D44 ones, they are apples and oranges, a completely different design.

You 'can' get beefed up D35 axles though I think.

TW is saying you can get the complete units from a wrecked TJ and 'hope and pray' that the wrecking process didn't bend anything when it happened so you can actually make them work. A burned out one would be safest, then you just need all new seals if the heat got to them. TJ's are too young to get rotted out body ones yet I think. They are best. Rust doesn't eat axle housings fast like it does to body tubs.

Folks that run big tires (33" plus) with lockers and run them hard off road can break D35 axles or the C-clips that hold them in. That is why an upgrade is available. A used set of 'say' a D44 or a Ford 8.8" is usually cheaper than an upgrade.

How long is your Warranty?

Mike

One is almost impossible to drive on the street in snow, the other 'hard' to drive in snow respectively.

The only one that works well in snow, except for starting off, is the one you can just turn off.

Just my $0.02 from 40 years of snow driving,

Mike

You lose your drivetrain warranty for starters!

Won't you get the same effect if you keep the

Yup.

I don't do any

No benefit in your case, unless you 'really' enjoy spending money and having no drivetrain warranty on your New Jeep.

Ya ya, I know about the US mag moss law, but they can 'easily' blame a t-case or tranny or driveshaft failure on a bad install as well as the brake parts or suspension parts. You can forget wheel bearings, anything to do with steering or front end. etc., etc.

Now the other confusion is

See my other 2 posts about that. Traction devices are not generally a good thing on snow on the road in a short wheelbase Jeep.

You are asking too many questions too fast. You should wait for answers.

Mike

Sorry (about the too many too fast).

OK....I think I got it. Since I don't do any heavy off-roading, but DO do alot of highway/snow driving, I would be best to just keep my D30/35 and just upgrade the gears to the 4.11s.

I could keep my original factory warranty (45,000 miles left with the extended warranty). I don't need stronger axles since I am NOT ugrading to more than 33" tires or doing any heavy off-roading.

Does this cover it and sound correct?

What Mike said...whew!! :)

I guess my suggestion on the axle swap would be that you are going to spend some serious coin swapping gears. If you're SURE you will never need the extra beef, just gear your 30/35s...BUT...For similar money you might be able to take that investment and purchase some lightly used Rubi D44s that have FACTORY set up 4:10/4:11 gears in them already, and since you will be lifting this Jeep and your axles will be all but removed already. They also have pneumatic lockers and a helical gear limited slip (much better than clutch base for longevity). From MY perspective ALONE, this is the way I would go. Hardcore Jeepers sometimes upgrade their Rubis to stronger axles and let the orig stuff go fairly cheap in comparison. The hardest part of this swap would be moving over the air for the pneumatic lockers or installing your own, but I think it would be worth the effort.

As far as warranty goes when modifying a vehicle, you have to accept that anything you upgrade will have NO Jeep warranty and anything those parts might affect MAY also be stricken from your warranty. I'm a person that takes that risk, you may not be. I put a 4" lift on my '99 TJ at

tw

It does to me. And IF you want lockers for your off road stuff, which you probably don't need, then you will more than likely want the ones that you can switch on and off from the dash. This is something that would be best to decide before you do the gear change though, because the labor is basically covered in the gear change. Also, you don't need lockers in both front and back. You can just install in one axle if you wish.

Chris

It probably wouldn't be too bad, if it were a manual tranny. It just drops out of OD even on the slightest hill. Its an 05 rubicon 6 cyclinder 4 liter,

Well, you sure are enthusiastic, LOL!

I would do just that for now.

Mike

I think it's just you. If you knew what an 05 rubicon came stock with you would shut your mouth; FYI, it came stock with 31's and 4.10. It now has 33's with the same gearing. You sir are a real c*ck sucker,

I´m going to start paying attention to my RPMs when I'm on the highway. Right now I'm running 30 inch tires with 4.56 gears (up from the original 4.10) and like it a lot. I plan to put 32 inch tires on it next year. It will be interesting to see how it runs then.

Tracie, if it were mine I'd go with the 4.10's now. That way you pay for the gear change once. You'll get slightly worse gas mileage so I guess you'll pay for the second gear change over time in increased fuel costs, but at least you won't have an extra big hit to your wallet when you go to 33's.

Mike -- I am definitely enthusiastic! I've never been so excited about a vehicle (and I've owned about 10 in the past 10-12 years) as I am about my Wrangler. They are so much FUN!! Thank you for your input regarding the gear upgrade.

Matt -- Same thing to be said to you as well. Thanks for all your input on the gear change. I thought that the Rubi's came with 31's and 4.10's, but I wasn't 100% sure. That helps ALOT in making my decision. That basically means my rig will drive like a stock Rubi without any problems (that I know of). I got a quote today of $1500-1600 (including labor but not the sales tax) for the front/rear gear change. This is from an acutal gear shop near where I live. Does that sound about right?

Front/back, all parts/labor included, sounds about right. It's a little higher then when I had mine done but you need to swap the entire carriers, the 4.10 gearsets don't fit on the 3.07 carriers. Mine originally came with

BEFORE YOU ASK ;-) If you plan on doing a lot of off-roading (which it sounds like you are not) then spring for the LS in the front. If not, just get the open carrier. Same for the rear.

It looks as if Tracie would need to get locking hubs for a LS on the front not to affect the steering. That is my understanding of how the newer TJs are put together anyway. That would add a few hundred.

Advice for Jeep shoppers--Stay away from any Jeep with the 3.07 axle ratio.

Cheers,

Earle

Not the case, the proof is in my garage...

Which LSD do you have? Just from looking at the front axle design, a Trac-Loc would seem to have some effect on slippery winter roads. I know they can make for lots of fun on the rear.

Cheers,

Earle

Rear is stock Trac Loc, front is Detroit Tru-Trac. The front Tru Trac is quite transparent on the street in 2wd.

Quite, the True-Trac is a gear driven gizmo, that doesn't load the axles on turns or unless it is driven by the drive shaft. The Trac-Loc is a more conventional design, that does do this and does interfere with steering, front or back. I would recommend the Trac-Loc for light duty use because it is cheap and won't break stuff, because it doesn't really ever lock. The down side is increased frequency of differential oil changes. If you want more locking behavior you can stick an extra clutch disc in it.

Cheers,

Earle