Spring over questions

After going wheeling last week, I found I really do need more height and bigger tires. My 85/91 YJ-7 has the 258 and T-5 tranny along with stock
diffs with 3" of body lift and 31-10.50 TRXUS tires, but needs more clearance for larger tires. I have plenty of clearance with my current tires. I recently replaced the front springs and all the shocks. It's amazing how well it rides.
I keep hearing about doing a spring over conversion. What all odd problems might come from this? Is it worth the effort? Are there steering problems that need to be remedied? I drive my Jeep both on and off road. How does the conversion affect ride quality? Are there better kits out there, or are they pretty much all the same? With spring over how big of tires would you go with?
Lots of questions, I know, but any help will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
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Chuck

I didn't fight my way to the top of the food chain to be a vegetarian
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Hi Chuck, The correct way to do it is with add a leaf for more rigidity then have the combination re-arced at your local spring shop. Repositioned shock mounts with new shocks with longer travel, Modified driveshaft slip joints, with constant velocity universal joints. If you still want spring wrap and broken shafts: http://www.dehesa4x4.com/osburn/tech/soa.htm God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O mailto: snipped-for-privacy@aol.com http://www.billhughes.com /
Chuck wrote:

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SOA is the way to go, Chuck.
It is absolutely worth the effort over lift springs because it will ride just as well as stock, and outflex most lift springs. Also, it frees up a TON of space under the axles giving you even more clearance.
There really are no 'odd' problems with spring-over. Most trucks and 4x4's come from the factory with a spring-over type setup.
The only problem that I encountered was the drag link vs pass front spring clearance. On a hard right turn, the drag link would sometimes graze the spring. The spring shaved off a wee bit of the drag link, providing the needed clearance.
SOA kills stock wrangler leaf packs. The way to combat this is to buy someone else's stock wrangler leaf packs. Whichever main leaves are worse, cut off the spring eyes and add them below the main leaf in the good pack. Also throw in the small leaf at the bottom to give your drag link more clearance and add a little hieght. The extra main leaf will keep your springs alive and give you about 1" extra. Alternatively, you can buy springs designed for Spring over from Rubicon, with or without added lift.
A kit is not required. All you need is: 4 spring perches, 4" drop pitman arm, longer rear brake line, 4 shocks, and a CV drive shaft with SYE from Tom Wood for the rear driveline. The front driveline and brake lines are plenty long enough.
With a spring-over on stock springs, you can clear 35's without trimming. I ran 33's on a sprung-over 89 YJ with great success. You mentioned having stock axles. If you have the D35 rear, most don't reccomend going above 33's because of breakage issues.
HTH,
Carl

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I don't know carl, I think you are ignoring alot of the other problems associated with SOA. Especially if you were to follow and read Bill's link, there are alot of other factors to consider to an SOA. He'd get the same amount of lift with a 4.5" Rubicon express extreme lift, and wouldn't have all of the other problems associated with SOA.......I really don't think its cheaper if it's done "correctly"
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I followed Bill's link. The only issue encountered with SOA not encountered with spring-under is axle wrap. The added leaf does the trick for the most part. Adding a ladder bar will eliminate the axle wrap.
I feel that going SOA is a huge advantage over spring-under simply because of the added clearance with moving the springs. I don't like my U-bolt ends and springs hanging out waiting to catch on anything and everything. As spring clearance wasn't enough, long springs on an spring-under configuration coupled with lift shackles point the shackles backwards or straight down. SOA points them away from the Jeep, keeping them out of harm's way.
The RE spring-under lift 4.5" lift nets 4.5 - 5".
Just springing over gives 5.5". Add the stock wrangler main leaf and short leaf, net 6.5-7".
IMHO, upgrading an SUA suspension is a waste of money.

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actually, the advertised 4.5" lift actually lifted my jeep 6.25". Did you forget about the steering linkage problems associated with your SOA? I didn't hear you mention anything about them.....there are none with the kit from RE.....Add a 1" body lift and I have everything a SOA has without welding or ladder bars or anything else.......without axle wrap.......and I'll place my springs against a SOA for flexability anytime......ESPECIALLY when you are adding leaf's and rearcing the stock one's.....sounds like a whole lotta hassle......
"The only problem that I encountered was the drag link vs pass front spring clearance. On a hard right turn, the drag link would sometimes graze the spring. The spring shaved off a wee bit of the drag link, providing the needed clearance."
Doesn't sound like something I'd like to have on my rig....
--From Bill's link---- Another steering solution, if you're willing to spend the dough on your stock Dana 30 is from M.O.R.E. Basically the M.O.R.E. kit adds bracketry to the Dana 30 so you can mount the axle end of the draglink above the springs. This kit is pictured below. Not a cheap solution, but a very good one.
Anything else you might have overlooked??? better read the article again.....
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I don't buy a lift based on what 'someone' got from the springs. They are advertised and rated at 4.5".
I didn't need a 1" body lift to clear 33's or even 35's.
Spring-under can't compete with Spring-over for clearance at the axle. U-bolt ends are out there just waiting to get smashed and torn off. The clearance difference between SOA and SUA is the same that you'll see running 35's vs 33's. Pretty substantial if you ask me.
I didn't mention re-arching the springs, wrangler stock springs are very soft and still flex very well even with double main leafs.
I'm not sure what 'steering linkage problems' you were referring to, but with both SOA and SUA, eventually hi-steer will be required to get the tie rod out of the way and get the drag link paralell to the axle. The same holds true for every Jeep out there.
With 7.5" of lift, my 89 Wrangler handled just fine with a 4" drop pitman arm. No bumpsteer, even at 70mph.
The OP wasn't asking which one is less hassle. I'm less concerned with putting in a little more work and more concerned with getting better performance.
If axle wrap was that big of an issue, 90% of other 4x4s would not be sprung over from the factory. RE sells springs designed to work on a sprung over Wrangler. One could spring over on stock springs netting 5.5" of lift, then later replace thier stock springs with RE SOA springs and get another 1.5", for a total 7".
With SUA lift springs, 4.5" + 2" shackles is IT. Any more lift will need to be body lift. With SOA, you get 5.5" + spring lift + shackles. Anyone who is really serious will eventually spring it over.
I've got a ton of flex pics of my SOA Wrangler, I'd be happy to swap and compare.
Carl

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Hi Carl To be picky you didn't change the axle height. All you did was remove the spring from under the axle at a point where the tires keep the rocks from, anyway. God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O mailto: snipped-for-privacy@aol.com http://www.billhughes.com /
Carl wrote:

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Which I believe I was able to skid over rocks, rather being caught by that straight across tube without any lead.

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Carl Replied.... .I'm not sure what 'steering linkage problems' you were referring to, but with both SOA and SUA, eventually hi-steer will be required to get the tie rod out of the way and get the drag link paralell to the axle. The same holds true for every Jeep out there. well Carl, if you were to have read your first response to this thread, the one I copied and pasted to your last reply, you would have understood exactly what I was referring to. By the way, I don't need a one inch body lift to clear 33's or 35's.....and I don't think I want anything bigger than 35's on a Jeep anyway....just me personally....I just feel bigger tires need more gearing and motor than I'm willing to go for.... If I want bigger tires, I'd probbably go buy an old ford bronco where everything was already done RIGHT from the factory....
L.W.(ill) Hughes III wrote:

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i did a SOA on my jeep.. i got 7in of lift and used the rubicon express leafsprings which have the eye on the bottom of leaf instread of top.. it has more leafs and discourages axle wrap.. they cost around 600. it cost me for a shop to do my soa the correct way about 2600.. fixen all stairing issues and such. i have had no problem and it has the same flex as if i went to the coil over convertion
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that sounds perfect Jon, I am not at all against a SOA, its just that (my interpretation) Carl seemed to believe that a SOA was a cheap easy way to go, and my point I'm trying to make to him is that it's not as quick, simple and easy as he thinks....doing a quickie SOA leave someone open to all kinds of problems...that may not appear right away, but when they do, oh boy!! I say, if your going to do a SOA, do it right. Thats all. Thanks
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With the lift hieght SOA gives, you will run into the same problems you would get with trying to get SUA that high. A SUA kit with new springs is approx. $700US. The only part you need for SOA that you don't need for SUA is the perches, and you get to bypass buying new springs, which saves a lot of money.
SOA does take more time, but if you plan carefully, it can be cheaper.
Carl

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Carl, your a moron, and I am going to pick you apart tomorrow on this thread.. ..too tired to do it now. You obviously haven't read your previous responses to this thread or bothered to respond to my arguments or chalenges...... Who said they were trying to get 6.5 to 7.0" of lift??? who wants that anyway??? unless you want big tires, but with the POS axles suppied by DOC you can only run 33'S Soooooo what do you want to do. run a rig right or crappy 33 or lower 33 or higher bring it on CRAWL or I mean CARL Carl wrote:

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My deepest apologies for ever asking about the SOA conversion. Thanks to those few who answered my actual questions. I never meant to start flame wars. I wish all would keep it civil in their replies.
I guess I'll slither out of here and do the best I can.
I'll check back on further answers and suggestions, but, PLEASE try to keep on the original topic of giving help.
Once again, sorry.
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Chuck

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Hi Chuck, Don't worry about our squabbles, we all have opinions, your post just brought them to the front. My opinion should be regarded as the best as that's place my Real Jeep is on top of the hill: http://www.billhughes.com/pismo.htm God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O mailto: snipped-for-privacy@aol.com
Chuck wrote:

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