tow vehicle suggestions

While not germaine to the original question, do you have any idea WHY the tow rating is degraded with the manual tranny? Same engine, same brakes, same running gear, but 3000# lower towing limit. I could never figure that one out. The MJ with the heavy duty package was rated 7000# and the only difference was a D44 rearend and (probably) larger brakes. As a practical matter, towing with a 5-spd makes for an interesting clutch manipulation breaking free a heavy load but why the difference in ratings limit?

BTW, with a decent hitch and pintle hookup I had no problems pulling

The problem is the clutch and low gear. To get the load moving you have to slip the clutch, or have an extremely low first gear. With an auto the converter slips for you giving the equivalent of an ultra-low first gear.

Dean

I am guessing the clutch and 1st gear vs a torque converter figure in there.

I am also guessing the auto tranny shifts the weight ratio toward the rear wheels more than a standard because of its heavier weight and longer length giving the rear wheels slightly more traction or better said I guess, slightly more resistance to being pushed out sideways.

Just guesses....

Mike

Will H>

Oh man, where do you come up with this stuff?

It is quite simple.

It is totally illegal to tow anything more than the door sticker or owners manual states is the GVWR with trailer.

If you get hit by someone and the cops come, 'you' are the one going to be busted. (been there, done that, got minorly rear ended, trailer ended up behind a police ordered tow truck)

If you hit someone such as a kid that jumps out from the front of a van, having an overload trailer turns an accident into vehicular manslaughter and can totally ruin your day, or decade, depending on how long they toss you in jail for.

The cops also specifically watch out for overloaded trailers, the newspaper recently said they nailed something like 15 overloaded trailers the last long weekend.

And 'Yes', the highway patrol do carry portable scales in their trunks to check.

Mike

Joshua Nels>

Actually, if you look back at this message thread, someone has posted that per DC specs, the only thing keeping a Cherokee from towing 5000 lbs (the ballpark figure I threw out) is a manual transmission. I understand there is some residual hostility toward me for the big Joshua vs. Cal Wheeler fight, but it appears I'm not in the wrong here.

I also stand by the statement that how much you can tow will vary with numerous towing conditions, and it's ridiculous to expect the same equipment to perform identically on a low-speed tow in florida and a freeway speed tow in Colorado. That's just common sense.

(Side note: I too don't understand why a manual transmission Cherokee would be an impairment vs. an automatic. If I recall correctly, the last time I looked at the TJ manual, the 2.5L TJs are actually the OPPOSITE: The manual transmission can tow 2000 pounds, the automatic only 1000. Weird.)

Josh, I truly anticipate your every post... Joe

Joshua, you are wrong. There is a lot more to towing than hitch weight ratings. (i.e., tow vehicle engine, tranny, cooling, suspension, brakes, tow vehicle weight, wheelbase, etc., and towed rig weight, braking, number of axles, load distribution, etc.) If you were a grown man with real world experience instead of a 16-year-old cyber-wheeler in front of a keyboard, you would know this.

If I were you, I would stop offering opinions about things you know nothing about.

Robert Bills KG6LMV Orange County CA

Nope, the hostility is the result of your ingnorant advice.

but it appears I'm not in the wrong

It only *appears* that way.

Stand by the statement you made, not the >Take manufacturer recommendations with a grain of salt. Remember they

If a vehicle can *safely* tow 6,000 pounds, that will be reflected in in GCWR. What part of this do you not understand?

and it's ridiculous to expect the same

it's also ridiculous to expect that you can legally and safely exceed the recommendation put in place by a manufacturer based on what *you* think is safe and legal. No one's arguing with you that the dynamics of a low-speed tow in Fl are different that freeway speed in CO. Where you are wrong is your assertion that it is OK to tow beyond the factory recommendations, from a safety or legal point of view.

Would you tow a 6,000 pound trailer with a Cherokee with your 3-year-old daughter in the back seat? Would you risk her safety?

• * * Matt Macchiarolo
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An *alleged* 16-year old...

;-)

• * * Matt Macchiarolo
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What's changed?

:-)

• * * Matt Macchiarolo
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Approximately 9/30/03 06:34, Joshua Nelson uttered for posterity:

Do us a favor and stay *standing* by that statement and keep it off the freeway. That way you won't kill anyone if that towed trailer gets a good shot of crosswind or you need to stop it from freeway towing speed in a hurry. Thank goodness this type of sense is only "common" amongst a minority of people who tow.

There's no need to be rude. Per another posterr who looked at the official DC manual, the cherokee manual states the auto transmission models can tow 5000 lbs. Case closed.

As for knowing "nothing about" towing.... We have indeed flat towed the TJ with the CJ successfully and safely. Again though, this was at low speeds on back roads in flat country, in a modified CJ with disc brakes, V8 and NV transmission, and should not be taken as a blanket endorsement of just towing any TJ with any CJ under any conditions. Once again, "it depends upon the circumstances." and you can take that to the bank!!

I had honestly not thought about the legal aspect. I can appreciate from that angle why you would want to be extra conservative, but, well, legality is a totally different issue from the physical properties of the vehicle. For example, you can probably also get in pretty hot water (vehicular manslaughter?) for having a fatal wreck at

I was towing the overload empty bunk trailer across Vancouver Island via unused logging roads on an overnight drive going 'really' slow.

But!

I had to pass through one town at 2:00 AM, there was no way around it and I needed gas. Bingo, some ditz rear ended me in the gas station parking lot at the pumps. The attendant called the cops.

I got popped for the overload.

It always will be that 'safe' spot or 'short slow careful' drive where something bad is going to happen you know, always.....

Mike

Joshua Nels>

Us> If the vehicle can safely tow 6,000

The point is your CJ's GCWR was most likely exceeded, and if you were stopped, you WOULD be ticketed, both for exceeding the GCWR and for not having lights on the towed vehicle...

If memory serves, you can modify a vehicle all you want, you might change its actual towing capacity but it would not legally change the factory gross combined weight rating.

• * * Matt Macchiarolo
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"but that doesn't necessarily mean that a jeep is inherently unsafe at

spam snipped-for-privacy@ev1.net

Boy, I'm probably opening myself up here but....

I don't know, would I? I am not at all familiar with cherokees but this whole towing issue has got me to wondering. Wondering what ARE the determining factors in the towing equation. I see where Joshua states that DC says an auto cherokee can safely tow 5000#. Where does that number come from? I'm guessing a cherokee weighs somewhere "close" to it's 5000# tow limitation. My F-250 on the other hand weighs in the neighborhood of 6k-ish and yet is rated to tow 20,000#. Three times it's own weight. Our semi-truck weighs in the vicinity of 22,000# yet can tow approx. 63,000# without a permit. With the proper trailer and permits it's upwards of

I know wheelbase has been touted as a big issue in the past, yet a TJ and CJ are relatively the same weight/length but one towing the other is being said to be a big no-no. The average semi trailer is close to twice the length of it's tow vehicle (MANY times it's length when they haul doubles and triples) and upwards of 3 times the weight (loaded) yet that is ok. I can tow a trailer that far exceeds the length of my pickup truck and again, pushing 3 times it's weight but that's ok.

Shoot, all the time I see pickup trucks towing campers the size of Rhode Island, with no issues.

I realize the stated weight limits are there for a reason but there has to be more to the determination than just weight/length of the tow vehicle.

Someone mentioned (sarcastically) a cherokee towing 15,000#. Actually it probably COULD be done and done safely. Depending on the terrain AND the sense of the driver. Unfortunately for us the sense of the driver can not always be counted upon so I am quite happy with the rules as far as safe tow weights go. In some "technical" sense this Joshua fellow may be right. You can conceivably safely exceed a vehicles towing limits. Is it a good idea? Probably not, and most certainly not legal. And I for one for damn sure don't won't to depend on the sensibilities of whatever driver may be behind the wheel.