What tire to buy

McFly, the Goodyear MT/R is not a mud terrain specific tire.

Jerry, the MT/R is perfect for what you do. Some of these guys d> In all the years I've run BFG ATs & MTs, and it's now up to about 7 sets on

I have only ever seen one set of Thornbirds in 'action'.

The only action was everyone having to bail out of this poor guys Jeep to push him across flat wet muddy grass while some kids in a Chevette or Acadian literally drove in circles around him laughing to piss themselves.

There were over a 100 other folks at the local mud pit laughing their butts off too. I sure wasn't impressed, neither was the Jeep owner trying to hide under his dash....

Mike

86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

Joshua Nels>

No offense taken (not even from the gentleman who called my tires "junk" :-) but could you be a little more specific... what is wrong with Thornbird TSLs exactly? The only problem I have with them is how loud they are on the freeway, which may not be brand-specific but just a problem with 35 inch tires in general!

The jeep they are on sees duty as an off-road toy but is also a daily driver and regularly driven 20 or 30 miles at a time on the highway, so something such as Boggers which might be better suited off-road would just not be practical for my needs. The Thornbirds seem to do acceptably cornering and braking on paved roads, yet they are knobby enough to grab and move me on the trail.

The only ones I have seen off road just plain could not drive through flat muddy grass. They turned to slicks.

The poor Jeep driver had to get his 3 passengers out to push with an audience of over a hundred while a bunch of kids in a put put pontiac Acadian or Chevette literally drove in circles around him laughing to piss themselves....

One gent from here bought a set and we had a beer riding on a run through the mud pits against my 'pizza cutters' (BFG 33x9.5 muds), but he never did show up.... He must have tried it himself first, never saw him again on the trails after he bought those tires. ;-)

I see lots of them for sale too with 'little to no wear' on them. LOL!

Mike

86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

Joshua Nels>

Specifically, they clog up with mud too easily and then won't self clean. I can't speak from experience since nobody I wheel with will go near them due to their bad reputation, but I saw a post from Mike mentioning a rig he saw that got stuck. If you do a google search on "thornbirds suck" you'll find quite a few threads on the subject.

But if they work for you, that's all that's important. I even considered a set when I first bought my Jeep until everyone steered me clear of them.

Dave

my mtr's are considerably better than my bfg a/ts in mud. are you running in high or low range?

hi joshua, the thornbird lugs are not self cleaning. once you spin them in the mud they turn slick fast and stay that way. if you dont encounter mud, they should be fine as a general trail tire but their aggressive look far exceeds their actual capabilities.

i think the mtr is getting an unfair reputation in mud because so many rubicon owners are mudding with them in low range. at a 4 to 1 ratio, you cannot possibly generate enough wheel spin to clean the lugs so in low range in the mud, you effectively have a slick. the only way that any mud tire can be effective is through wheelspin. lots and lots of wheel spin and you just arent going to get it in 4 low over a 4 to 1 ratio. stomp the go pedal in 4 high and the mtr does surprisingly well in mud. not as well as the trxus mud terrains i had, but id rate them equal to my bfg mt's in the mud (and superior to them in the rocks).

lol......bingo! if you look at my tach at

see what 4 to 1 does. you just cant get the wheelspin required toclean the lugs.

Well, you are right, but you are wrong....

Spinning the wheels to clear lugs is way easier in low range, but the traction factor so the tires grab and don't need a spin to clear them is way better in a higher range/gear depending on the driver.

When I run mud, I use 3rd low so I have a 'punchy' gas pedal 'to a point'. I can keep total power climbing a sand pit wall in 3rd low at

400 rpm even, without spinning the tires.

If you spin, you are done in fast in either situation.

If you have some speed up in 1st or 2nd in 4 high and the tires pack, a quick spin at high rpm can clear them because you have the momentum to keep you moving.

If you are spinning them from the get go in low, they are packed and will stay packed, you need to move for them to clear or you just dig holes.

I now have 'really' high traction tires and the mud pits just aren't any fun any more. With the lower traction 10.5's I used to run I would have mud everywhere so at least the clean up after or the 'wow' factor was 'worth' it. Now I just purr through and don't even show any mud on the Jeep for all the same cleaning of the brakes, etc. that is needed anyway....

If I want to show mud up top, I have to 'Baja' the mud hole after it is well chewed up so just the splash will give me mud up top....

Hey, on the normal trails I run, I 'want' the no spin traction, but off in the mud playground with a couple hundred folks watching, well.... 'Hey, you just cruised on through there, cool', just doesn't cut it for the after clean needed....

Mike

86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

yup, took awhile for me to figure out what i was doing wrong. 4 to 1 is _great_ for crawling rocks, but its worthless in mud. luckily the 4.0 has enough balls to generate the necessary wheel spin in high range for most circumstances.

Thanks guys, I took Mike's advice and went back and did a google search, and there does seem to be an afwul lot of negative comments about thornbirds. I notice however, that most of the comments are along the lines of Thornbirds are way bad for mud. However around here we have relatively little mud and mostly rock. I didn't see much discussion about that... any ideas how they compare to other tires on rock? These are the only tires I have ever had (other than OEM street tires) so I don't know how they compare from experience.

I guess I will start thinking about changing tires sooner or later... it sure would be nice to get something quieter on the freeway even if off road performance was not an issue. My use is probably 70% highway, 20% rock, 5% mud, and 5% miscellaneous (sand, snow, etc.) I would appreciate any recommendations on what would be a good tire for this breakdown.

hi mike, keep in mind im referencing a 4 to 1 low range which is a world of difference from the 2.72 to 1. you simply cannot spin the wheels fast enough in low range to clean the lugs.

i invite you to come down and run one of these rural north carolina swamp runs sometime. if you dont spin, you dont move and if you dont move, the gators are gonna get ya. :-)