24v/12v Landrover 110 CSW (long!)

I have an interesting problem (all of my own making!)

To give a bit of background. In this weather my defender 110 CSW (19J engine) struggles to heat the cabin. When travelling down a motorway it just about keeps up, when down on the A and minor roads, you just get colder and colder! In a few months time I will also be having dogs sleeping in the back of the car through the night, so I wanted a way of keeping the car warm separate (or additional to) the engine.

Prior to the recent thread I had been exploring diesel heaters and they seemed an ideal solution. The problem was that at this time of year the 12v versions were going for quite a premium. So I bought a 24v version from eBay. (Just waiting for it to arrive).

This was bought deliberately (it was about =A3140 cheaper than the equivalent 12v version!) and I now need to see how to provide the 24v in the car for the diesel heater (in fact, providing it is easy, that's just a second battery, keeping that second battery charged is the more interesting problem!)

I think there are three options and there are pros and cons to all. I would appreciate your views on the various options and whether any of you have a similar problem and how you have solved it.

Firstly the battery drain is not huge. Start up is the worst at 11.25A (due to heating the glowplug I suspect), the ongoing power for the fan then drives the consumption which is quoted at 1.25A for boost and only

0=2E4A when running at low/medium power. This is of course at 24v.

So options:

Option 1 -

Weekly charge of second battery. Probably the simplest option and just needs to be a good habit to get into. Remove the second battery once a week and charge it overnight. With the drains quoted above, even leaving the heater on all night shouldn't have a major drain on that battery. The downside is the hassle of removing the battery once a week. (This could be done through an isolation switch and an external socket and may be the way that I go)

Option 2 - Fit a 24v alternator (is one done for the 19J?) and charge both batteries at once. Slightly more complicated and there will be a need to uprate the charging light bulb to 24v. Also the batteries, even if across the 24v will never charge equally. Remainder of car stays at

12v. Are there any issues I've missed?

Option 3 - Fit a clever change over circuit that allows the 12v alternator to alternately charge each battery. The lions share of the charge should go on the "car" battery with occasional time for the supplementary battery. For example I would expect that after initial starting there is a minimum of 20 mins charging the main battery and then say and uneven cycle of say 2 mins on the supplemantary batteyr and 6 minutes on the main battery.

Possible problems as it is far more complicated and the risk of stray (high current!) paths.

OK, I could have spent more and saved all this hassle, but what the heck, this is an interesting challenge.

So any thoughts, comments, insults :-)

Cheers

Peter

1990 110 CSW (Reggie the Veggie) 1959 Farina A40 1964 Rover P4 110 1974 Hillman Imp
Reply to
puffernutter
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To give a bit of background. In this weather my defender 110 CSW (19J engine) struggles to heat the cabin. When travelling down a motorway it just about keeps up, when down on the A and minor roads, you just get colder and colder! In a few months time I will also be having dogs sleeping in the back of the car through the night, so I wanted a way of keeping the car warm separate (or additional to) the engine.

Prior to the recent thread I had been exploring diesel heaters and they seemed an ideal solution. The problem was that at this time of year the 12v versions were going for quite a premium. So I bought a 24v version from eBay. (Just waiting for it to arrive).

This was bought deliberately (it was about £140 cheaper than the equivalent 12v version!) and I now need to see how to provide the 24v in the car for the diesel heater (in fact, providing it is easy, that's just a second battery, keeping that second battery charged is the more interesting problem!)

I think there are three options and there are pros and cons to all. I would appreciate your views on the various options and whether any of you have a similar problem and how you have solved it.

Firstly the battery drain is not huge. Start up is the worst at 11.25A (due to heating the glowplug I suspect), the ongoing power for the fan then drives the consumption which is quoted at 1.25A for boost and only

0.4A when running at low/medium power. This is of course at 24v.

So options:

Option 1 -

Weekly charge of second battery. Probably the simplest option and just needs to be a good habit to get into. Remove the second battery once a week and charge it overnight. With the drains quoted above, even leaving the heater on all night shouldn't have a major drain on that battery. The downside is the hassle of removing the battery once a week. (This could be done through an isolation switch and an external socket and may be the way that I go)

Option 2 - Fit a 24v alternator (is one done for the 19J?) and charge both batteries at once. Slightly more complicated and there will be a need to uprate the charging light bulb to 24v. Also the batteries, even if across the 24v will never charge equally. Remainder of car stays at

12v. Are there any issues I've missed?

Option 3 - Fit a clever change over circuit that allows the 12v alternator to alternately charge each battery. The lions share of the charge should go on the "car" battery with occasional time for the supplementary battery. For example I would expect that after initial starting there is a minimum of 20 mins charging the main battery and then say and uneven cycle of say 2 mins on the supplemantary batteyr and 6 minutes on the main battery.

Possible problems as it is far more complicated and the risk of stray (high current!) paths.

OK, I could have spent more and saved all this hassle, but what the heck, this is an interesting challenge.

So any thoughts, comments, insults :-)

Cheers

Peter

Option 1. fit fork lift charging connector to second battery, isolated from vehicle earth.

Option 2. fit small additional 24v alternator, make engine bracket for it and leave it running all the time, no probs, just gove it a trigger feed to the field terminal via a relay controlled by the ignition, so that the 12v ignition switches the 24v field feed. Use 2 of the smallest 12v batteries you can find, in series, and have it as a standalone system.

Option 3. too much hassle due to common grounding via the alternator body

Option 4. clever switchgear to put your second battery in parallel when the engine is running, and series when stopped. 12v charging, 24v feed for your heater.

Option 5. stop being a skinflint and get a 12v heater! ;-)

Badger.

Reply to
Badger

Sounds like you need a 12/24V inverter - RS etc will have such things (don't know about Maplin). However, your dealing with fairly high currents, which may make thing expensive. Most trucks have a 12V outlet on their 24V systems these days, so a truck accessory place may also be worth talking to, even if just to get the "gen".

Richard

Reply to
beamendsltd

I've just been doing exactly the same thing as you. I was watching the

24v heaters on ebay and just planning my thread for here asking how to make it work on 12v! :) >
Reply to
Tom Woods

In article , Badger writes

Option 6: investigate which parts of the heater are 24V and replace them with the 12V equivalents, if necessary sourced from the manufacturer.

Far easier than all the rest and probably cheaper in the long run.

Regards,

Simonm.

Reply to
SpamTrapSeeSig

I've investigated that (or in fact others have before me) and it is prohibitively expensive.

Cheers

Peter

Reply to
puffernutter

None of that size done by RS, whilst there are lots of 24/12 convertors, I have found no 12/24 convertors!)

I think that the best option is going be a second lead acid battery and a regime of weekly overnight charging.

Cheers

Peter

Reply to
puffernutter

On or around 28 Nov 2005 01:25:26 -0800, "puffernutter" enlightened us thusly:

Option 2A: fit 24V bulbs along with the 24V alternator, and make it all 24V. optionally leave the starter at 12V and feed it with 24V, which should make it start very nicely :-)

[before everyone has a go... the rally boys commonly used to do this - I daresay it's worth having a spare starter motor to hand.]

actually, it's not that easy - you have other stuff to convert as well, so probably not worth it.

Option 4: change the motor and glowplug in the heater unit for 12V items.

Reply to
Austin Shackles

Easy answer - once or twice a week swap the batteries over. TonyB

Reply to
TonyB

I have now spoken to Espar (who make the D1LC air heater) and confirmed that the chassis of the heater is isolated from the wiring to the heater components. This removes any nasty shorts across the exisiting battery!

I think that there is a way of connecting the alternator through a DPDT switch and with one diode, it should be possible to switch between which battery is charged. (If anyone is really interested have a look at

formatting link
- I struggle withASCII drawings!)

The other alternative is the weekly (or less or more frequent as necessary) charge. Again, I don't think that any thing special (e.g switching or isolation) is required. The charger is simply placed between the +12 and +24 connections.

The only "extra" item I reckon I'll fit is a fuse between the "+" and "-" of the two batteries. It won't need to be that great (15A max) and it may give some protection should a short occur in the heater and chassis.

The last suggestion about changing batteries over is by far the cheapest, but probably involves more hassle than the others, so I shall go for one of the two options above.

So thanks for all the suggestions. (With regard to the one about buying a 12v heater, I am watching one on eBay, identical to mine except the voltage. It is now =A350 more than mine and 3 days to go!) I reckon this additional hassle is worth it.

Cheers

Peter

Reply to
puffernutter

Can you get spares like this for the eber heaters?

I presume that it has a fuel pump and/or a metering pump too which might have to be replaced. Along with the mean looking control unit/relay thing that they have (if theyre like the 101 petrol ones)

Reply to
Tom Woods

You can, but it is the the control box, fuel metering pump, blower motor, voltage regulation relay and in some case the ignition system will have to be modified.

(from their website)

Which works out to be (as well as a a lot of hassle) plain uneconomic!

Cheers

Peter

Reply to
puffernutter

And when it gets really cold it is a three dog night. Dogs in the back is one way of warming the cabin I suppose :)

Reply to
Larry

For how long?

How long

96W, this is within the capability of a laptop dc step up supply from a cigar lighter socket.

Maybe 2 12v gel cells for the duration, charged as per Dave's diagram, of the startup and then use the laptop charger.

Vanson 120W model at about 20 quid, don't know how long it would last though, runs my Acer OK.

AJH

Reply to
AJH

There's something wrong with your heater. Either that or your door fit is measured in feet, not inches....

Your heater matrix may be sludged up - try flushing it out. Also, make sure the bowden cable outers are not broken at the ends and not allowing full movement. Make sure the heater operates at all it's speeds. If you still need more heat then think about getting a scoop to force air through the matrix - llama 4x4 do them amongst others.

Well, you could make things better in the mean time by getting the engine heater working as it should! Our old dog (collie/lab) would have hated a warm car - insisted on sleeping outside every day of his life, only shelter a old hen house, he wouldn't even sleep on a blanket.

Regards

William MacLeod

Reply to
willie

Put you hands "in" the dash board next to the instruments - is it cold when going along? If so, the vents are not sealing - this can feel just like te heater is not working well. Get a helper to move the control levers while you push the vent shut. This is an annual pre-winter event on my 110 and transforms the cabin temperature.

Worth a try.........

Richard

Reply to
beamendsltd

In article , beamendsltd writes

I noticed this afternoon that when the windscreen cabin lever was all the way down (nominally sending hot air over my knees), a high proportion was still coming out of the windscreen vents.

I don't doubt this is normal, but do the team think it's a fault?

Regards,

Simonm.

Reply to
SpamTrapSeeSig

On or around Wed, 30 Nov 2005 17:23:41 +0000 (UTC), beamendsltd enlightened us thusly:

I used to put insulating tape on the outside to seal 'em in cold weather.

Reply to
Austin Shackles

Using the same logic i was considering duct taping round my doors and then climbing in and out through the back of the landy...

Reply to
Tom Woods

And the controller, and the fuel pump, and the relays...........

Any cost saving now totally spent on new bits.

Reply to
SimonJ

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