Crash Damage

"Liam" schreef in bericht news:y60Jb.420$ snipped-for-privacy@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk...

Don't know how insurances work in the UK, but since these things are under EU regulations it'll be pretty much like here in Belgium. I've had a case once where a car crashed into my (parked) motorbike, wrecking it -according to the insurance company- beyond economical repair. I did force the insurance to repair it, through a lawsuit, which was covered by my (independent) insurance for these kind of lawsuits.

In any way, don't let them write it off too easily, because a write-off is in many cases the most interesting solution for insurance companies because they don't have to battle the financial consequences out among themselves, then.

The question is, are you claiming off your Fully Comp insurance, or are you claiming of the other persons Third Party insurance. If you're claiming from the person who hit you, wether via your your insurance company or not, you are entitled to have your property restored to the condition is was before the accident occoured. Ie. new chassis (as a repair wouldn't be galvanised completely) and repair or replacement of the rear tub. You are entitled to refuse an offer of payment for the value of the vehicle.

If you're just claiming off your Fully Comp insurance, then they can offer you the value of the vehicle if it's deemed to be beyond economical repair. You then get into the tricky situation of buying the vehicle back from the insurance company, or persuading them to pay you a sum to repair the vehicle yourself.

Alex

I have a vague recollection of a company advertising a full replacement chassis service -- chassis and the work of fitting it. Quite a lot less than GBP 4000, I think, but a copy of that advert from one of the magazines would be a useful piece of evidence.

Professional fitment of a new galv chassis and a second-hand bulkhead to my S2 was a shade under 2K about 3 years ago at a local specialist Land Rover bloke.

You've got to add in the cost of a new rear tub as well of course, and the work of fitting that out.

Is it completely impossible to repair a galv chassis? I would have thought you only need to clean the galv off the weld area (a few inches on each chassis rail), weld on replacement section and redip. Need to make sure it isn't twisted of course.

Having done a bit of panel-beating on FFR wings many years ago I wouldn't envy anyone the job of straightening out the rear tub. The ally stretches quite easily, after which it will never again be straight.

With the chassis only being 6 months old I wouldn't be happy with it being repaired as I wouldn't feel that it was being returned to its original condition and I'm not convinced that trying to re galv it would be as good.

The rear tub I'm not that bothered if its repaired or replaced. The job of fitting a new chassis should be fairly easy as I had fully rebuilt it 6 months ago so all the bolts should come out easy and the mounting points shouldn't need repairing.

Has anyone got the details of companies that do chassis replacements in case I need them as a price guide.

Don't know who's insurance will end up paying for it as the people in the car that hit me ran off, the police that came to the scene said that the car wasn't stolen but they thought it may be a pool car used by criminals. So at the moment don't know if it had valid insurance, police indicated that it is possible that it is insured and it will probably be reported as stolen later. The police are trying to trace the people that were in the car from the DNA they left on the windscreen as there heads smashed against it.

Thanks

Liam

Having just put a galvanised chassis and bulkhead on my Defender I know how much work is involved in doing a full strip down an rebuild. I would imagine that a £4000 insurance value is borderline on what it is going to cost the insurance company to pay an approved garage to get that damage fixed (inc new galv chassis), your best bet would either be to negotiate a settlement and buy back the vehicle from the insurers and have it repared by a local independant or to do the work yourself. Unfortunately what an insurance company will never understand is that a lot of land rover owners have replaced and know the history of most components on their vehicles after several years ownership, something that can never be assured with a secondhand vehicle of similar value. (Vehicles of this age with FSH are very rare).

What sort of vehicle hit you to do that sort of damage and how fast were they going? I have seen a Metro destroyed up to the front doors after rear ending a series Land Rover with considerably less crossmember damage.

Who made the chassis for your vehicle and was it easy to fit? I went with a new Land Rover original chassis in the end and had it hot dipped myself, wheter it was worth it or not I don't know but it did have the advantage of coming with all the anti-roll suspension mounts already welded on in the right places.

Fergus

Hi Guys

I am sorry to hear about your accident I hope you get it sorted out.

One thing I have never understood why do you have to buy a vehcile back from the insurers at what point do you say that in the event of some plonker hitting it that you then had over the car and the keys and ownership to the insurance company.

I pay my insurance so that in the event of an accident that I can be offered the chance to have it repaird and also becouse it is a legal responsibility on my part to have it but I have never knowingly said yes by all means keep it I dont want it back.

I may be missing the obviouse but one thing I never did understnad.

All the best for the new year

Paul

If the car has agreed value of 4K, the insurance company can (at their choosing) say it isn't worth fixing, so here is 4 grand and bugger off. They have given you 4K, so they now own what is left of your car.

The wreck is worth considerably less than that, but in this instance it would probably be worth more to the OP than to anyone else. As it may well be sitting outside his house it is also often considerably cheaper to sell it to him than to anyone else as there are no fees for recovery and disposal.

It was a Mondeo that hit me at about 50 to 60 mph I has at the junction of a roundabout moving at about 15 mph. There were no signs of the Mondeo trying to brake and never tried to go around me, there was nothing in the lane to the right of me yet they hit more to the left side of me Land Rover. They had not been travelling too close behind me, I think they must have had there eyes closed! The Mondeo was compleatly destroied up to the windscreen.

The chassis was from Richards Chassis I had heared good things about there chassis and they were cheaper than most, they also clear all the excess galv from all the holes on the chassis, so as soon as they deliver it you can start building. The chassis I got was good, it was straight and everything was in the right place.

I think the cost of me replacing the chassis and repairing it will be about GBP1500.

Regards

Liam

Get any pictures of the offending vehicle or whats left of it ?

On or around Thu, 01 Jan 2004 23:17:43 +0000, Tim Hobbs enlightened us thusly:

easy-peasy to repair it, but it ain't galvanised afterwards. Unless you strip it and get it replated, but if yer going to that extreme, you might as well replace it, and try to flog the unbent front half of the chassis to someone looking for chassis parts.

too true. replacement panels aren't silly money provided they're available from pattern makers - I'd not like to price 'em up from LR...

interestingly, I took a front headlamp panel up to our local body repair bloke so's he could etch prime it for me, and he reckoned it was a better part than the LR ones he'd seen, which apparently haven't got all the headlamp mounting stuff attached. They were also impressed with the quality of the pattern front wing I had, as indeed was i at the price - about 120 quid for a complete front wing; inner, outer and headlamp panel, the latter

No didn't have a camera with me. The engine had been pushed back so far that the middle of the dashboard was smashed and the rest of it just holding on. Obviously the bonnet and front wings were wrecked and the driver's side front wheel was twisted under the car.

Think I'll keep a camera in the car from now on.

Regards

Liam

IMHO that will be written off, you cant repair a galvanised chassis, as obviously it will need re galving, which cant be done in situ. The cost of labour removing and replacing everything from the chassis will be very high, and when you add the cost of a new chassis, rear tub, lights, paint etc it will be more than the vehicle is worth.

Unfortunately the £4,000 will mean nothing in this case, as yo uare claiming from the other parties insurance, who do not have any sort of agreed value contract with you, they will go by the market value, so make sure the assessor is familiar with Land Rovers, and knows the value added factor of the galv chassis. Alternatively, you could claim on your own policy, and get the full £4000, but you will probably lose your NCB as your insurers are unlikely to be able to make a full recovery.

I think you should be looking for about £2500, plus the salvage as a settlement, that will give you enough money for all the new parts, plus a little to cover some of your time rebuilding it. FWIW, for comparison, I got paid out £2000 + salvage for a 1989 VougeSE which was written off. Wasnt galved, but was in pretty tidy nick.

I never did fully understand what was going on when I dealt with the other party's insurers, I knew I didn't want to involve mine. Anyway I cannot see why one insurer should pay less than another just because you have a contract with one, I think tort is implied in the other case. Now if you are suggesting that the difference in offers, GBP1500, is the salvage value then I think you have overvalued the salvage.

Same here, 'cept I got a bit less for the 89 110. My repairs were cheap but not to a high cosmetic standard. The spoiler was when the cheque came it indicated the vehicle was a class C write off, this cost me more in MOT and vehicle inspections than the repairs. I did this just before the April03 deadline which made putting a crash damaged car on the road more difficult.

AJH

I ALWAYS keep a single use camera in the car just incase....... very useful for insurance companies to see the actual damage and the situation of both cars.........

Just because your own insurance company has agreed to pay more than market value for the vehicle, doesn't mean the other will.

I would value the salvage at £500 tops.

snipped-for-privacy@dtn.invalid wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

Can you give some indication of these costs? I assumed it would be a standard MOT to put a write off back on the road....But..

It cost me £650 to buy back my w/o 1992 D90. I understand the value is taken as 10% - 20% of the book value. The value on the policy was £3,500 which is what the insurers paid me, less excess and salvage.

Not sure if I did right, but I kept quiet about wanting to buy the salvage until everything else was settled. They were difficult about selling the salvage -- but then I can do that to and I have more time doing that than they do! On the whole, I found the insurers very fair.

Derry

The cost of putting it back on the road should they write it off is what was worrying me.

What do the different classes of write off mean?

I would have thought that since the chassis on a land rover can be replaced (and in my case this is the main damage) the vehicle can't be written off and classed as salvage only since it's replaceable. Unlike most cars with a frame which once bent or damaged isn't really repairable.

Liam

"Liam" wrote in news:tmDJb.5202$ snipped-for-privacy@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk:

It's a question of economics. And I think they have to use new parts. (Maybe someone can confirm that). So, an insurer will not want to put a new chassis costing, say, £2,200 on a damaged LR with a "book" value of, say, only £1,000. They will give you the book value of £1,000 and wave you goodbye. If you insured it for £5,000, that's just too bad. You will still only get the book value. But the bottom line is what it says on your policy.

Derry