I just got a Landie

Any ideas what would cause a S3 to lock the wheels completely - they just won't turn - my guess is that the handbrake may have welded itself on, or something catastrophic in either the gearbox or transfer box.

If you stick the car in gear, rev it and then let the clutch out you get torque effects from the drive train - the entire car tries to twist.

The front wheels still move, but that's because the FWHs are released.

P.

Is the front diff screwed? Stick it in 4wd mode & remove the front propshaft. If it's the diff you'll be able to tell & likewise, if it's the gearbox etc, you can tell then as it wont move anything after the gearbox etc.

Nige

Might the emergency brake have somehow locked up?

Seems I might remember it works off the driveshaft.

If that's not it, I reckon the final drive has locked.

-Rock

There's three possible explanations.

1. Rear hubs have friction welded themselves on. In this case it will prove impossible to turn the rear wheels at all, even with removing the drive flanges from the rear wheels.
2. Diff has broken/locked/disentegrated. Jack the rear end up, if you can turn one wheel whilst the other one rotates the opposite way, then this is a distinct possibility.
3. Handbrake/gearbox problem. Remove the rear propshaft and see if you can get the output shaft to turn.

I'd rekon a problem with the diff is the most likely.

Alex

Seems most likely - rear diff seems to be good.

Any idea how difficult the diff is to replace on one of these?

P.

Really easy.

Chock the wheels securely. Drain the diff oil. Remove the 6 bolts around each drive flange and withdraw the half shafts. Remove the rear propshaft. Undo the bolts holding the diff head into the housing. Pull out the diff head - watch out it's *heavy*. Reassembly is the reverse of removal.

Just a thought - series motors don't actually have a center diff, do they?

I'm working on the basis that something, somewhere in the transmission has hopelessly seized.

I'll try dropping the propshaft off the back of the handbrake tomorrow and see if the back wheels are still free - try and dismantle the handbrake after that and following that drop the propshaft off the front diff.

At that point, if the transmission is still jammed solid I'm guessing it's a gearbox and T-Box strip down which I'm not sure I have the kit for at the moment.

P.

No, no centre diff on a Series, just a dog clutch for 4wd. drop the prop off the back, that'll at least tell you wether you're looking at axle or gearbox. If it's gearbox then you might just as well look around for a replacement (2nd hand) than try and rebuild it. You need a fair amount of kit - presses etc to rebuild a gearbox, and a stack of parts as well.

Alex

Its not the gearbox. If you are getting a torque reaction when you try to set off (the car trying to twist) you must be getting force out of the gearbox to the axle. Most likely buggered diff.

From what you are saying, it sounds like you might be slightly confused about the series drivetrain. (apolgies if you arnt, but i get that impression from your posts!)

You have no centre diff, just the diff in each axle. When the landy is in 2WD (yellow knob up+red lever forwards), only the rear axle is driven. The front prop should not be turning You have free wheeling hubs. If they are unlocked, then no problem with the front diff should cause the vehicle to be unmovable. Removing the front prop would be pointless (until youve checked the back axle and eliminated that). On a normal fully working landy, if you remove the rear prop, and then put it in 4wd/low range with the front hubs locked, you will be able to drive it.

You say that the back diff seems good. how have you tested it?

You would be better off to first remove the rear prop and see if you can turn a wheel when the back is jacked up, just the check if the diff is locked up. Try turning the diff via the prop too.

The diff on my mates landy blew up, and the gears inside arranged themselves such that the diff would not turn atall, this gave a similarily immovable vehicle to yours - We removed the rear prop and halfshafts, and then it was drivable in 4WD (and the front hubs locked)

It sounds like it will keep you out of trouble for a while! :)

Depends on the diff type. A Rover diff is spanner and awkward lifting. The Salisbury diff (on some models) needs a special tool to stretch the diff housing.

The first post in this thread states that it's an 88" so a salisbury is

OK,

I've just been crawling under this car and so far have got:

Removed handbrake drum - no win - it still won't go - not the handbrake though.

Jacked the rear and spun the wheels - the diff allows the wheels to spin against each other.

Jacked the front and spun the wheels (with the FWH locked) - the diff allows the wheels to spin against each other.

Now, when I run the engine against whatever the block is, I get the gearstick leaning a little to the right, which seems to suggest a torque effect - given how little this effect is, would it be a sensible bet to assume the front diff is buggered on the input shaft?

Also, how the heck do you drop a propshaft off one of these (SWB S3) - I can see four nuts on the drive flange at each end of each propshaft, but I can't see how to get any tool into them - is there a Z shaped spanner to use for this or something?

P.

Front diff? I thought the problem was with the rear? Pull the red lever back, lift the yellow knob up if the spring is broken and push the red lever forward. This will reset the box to 2wd. You should now be able to turn the front prop from underneath with one of the front wheels jacked up. Perform the same test at the back by engaging neutral in the xfer box (red lever to middle position) If either of these props won't turn with a wheel jacked up then the problem it most likely in the diff, but you'll have to drop the rear prop to confirm that it isn't the gearbox.

You can remove a prop with two 9/16" spanners. Open ended on the bolt, ring will fit on the nut. If there isn't enough clearance to get a rin on then rotate the prop 90degrees, the spaces between the yokes aren't equal. Except the front end of the rear, you have to remove the handbrake drum first, and this one will probably require a socket and extension - 3/8" drive is best, as 1/2" drive is a bit big. Failing that, get a proper propshaft socket from a tool suppliers.

If this is really getting a problem, then I suggest you consult someone local who knows about Series vehicles, I have a suspicion that you havn't worked on them before.

Alex

The problem was that the rear wheels had locked, however the front wheels had the freewheel hubs in the free position, so they couldn't lock if they tried.

You'd be dead right on that one. All of my previous experience has been with RRCs and S1 and S2 Discoveries - the Series motors are a bit different.

I'm not desperate on this one - this car is something I acquired with my eyes open knowing damn well that it was a problem - I'm treating it as a learning experience.

With a bit of luck I'll shut up when the HBOL I bought on eBay last night turns up.

Thanks for the help though.

P.

Just a quick question...

Have you got the V5 or a receipt?

Be a shame to do all that work and, erm, the original owner tries to say he'd only lent it to you...

I've got the V5, and a witness - who happened to be the traffic cop attending the original fault.

Just been under it again.

With one side jacked - zero movement on the rear propshaft - not even as much as would be allowed by slack in the drivetrain or UJs.

The front propshaft turns a couple of degrees with the car in 4WD.

I'm going to take the rear prop off tomorrow, but it's looking like a shagged rear diff at the moment - here's hoping.

Now all I have to do is find somewhere with a replacement S3 rear diff - my normal source is all sold out due to Old Sodbury a week ago.

P.

Deciding that he quite likes Series motors to work on, if he could just figure out what damn sizing system they use - it ain't metric and it doesn't appear to be any variant of imperial I have in my toolkit.

You'll find it's a real mix no doubt, mine was/is.

When you've had the props off, remember to use new nyloc nuts (and get UNF not UNC...) when you come to replace them.

There's still a bit of Whitworth sizing on some Series wagons.