Overheating 101/V8 (yet again!)

Tom Woods wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

Sounds to me like a leaking head-gasket or cracked head. Bassicly you are "blowing" the water out, and if there is no water, the waterpump have nothing to pump.........

Kind regards, Martin.

The small holding tank in front of the rad grill is there to take water coming out under pressure - and then it's s'posed to feed water in through suction as the engine cools down.

Now... mine was super-smashing-great right up until one point with my last engine when it started getting hot, hotter and hotter still. Nothing that I can see caused this. With my new 4.6 it's still hot (~90 to 100 - with an electronic temp guage). I too have a newly recored large bore rad, mine is hot all over though.

My list of things to check goes like this:

Head gasket. Fine it's new, but you never know, these things happen. Next I'm going to change the water pump but I reckon what'll really do it is to look at the oil cooler. I've been looking at replacements and a racing one should go a long way to cooling the oil down, thus keeping the water down too.

As a totally over-the-top fallback, I'm going to have a custom rad made by either Alisport or Jeremy Fearn.

It's a ploy to make us appreciate them more once we fix the problems...

I've now got a very sore back after getting a chill earlier. A 'quick

Martyn

Matilda has a similar sort of problem. Most of the time she will run at about 80 degrees. Night time she will run a bit cooler (as expected ) However on a longer run and added to that a bit of speed for a change (60mph+) the temp gauge rises up to just below the 100 degree mark. On the way to LRO we blew water out at the petrol station (it was running out the overflow pipe at the front of the ) and seemed to caused just by overfilling the rad. Today she was a shit..... she got up to 85 degrees after only a few minutes of travelling. So i removed the water carrier off the front and re-filled the rad and to my surprise it took about 4ltr to refill. Matilda is tending to blow water so i think i may have a blockage in the rad, but i think i will try the expansion tank trick first.

Awkward ? what are you talking about ..... These are precision built machine's built by Britains top designer's....( sorry i am laughing my smelly old sock's off here..!) Things are not "awkward" but differently challenging....... We love 'em that's why we put up with them.

GAH!

You never give up do you Martyn.

Oh well, don't say I didn't warn you!

With my new 4.6 it's still hot

sorry to jump in with a kinda off topic reply, but i was wanting to fit an electronic thermometer in my water system and hopefully have a digital readout in the cab,

do you know where to get one from.

andy

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Seems to be a characteristic of 101's. Mine runs fine round town, fine on short runs. About 80-90 usually. Down the m-way at full bore it's a different story. Temp rises to the red line, and doesn't seem to want to stop. The oil temp starts to rise as well. Take your foot off the throttle, using about 2/3 to 3/4 throttle and the temp drops back again to the 90 mark.

Alex

Well, it isn't really at all off topic IMO

There are a couple of ways of doing this;

The first is obviously to replace the existing sender in the top of the engine. I used the Tim system which has three different screw adapters to fit pretty much all V8s. The guage itself is a 50mm unit which I've got in a pod. You just need to run a lead between the two, it's all pretty easy.

Next off you could use a probe which you stick between the fins of the rad (this is how electric fans work) and have a small digital display on the dash.

As a complete fallback, and more to 'prove' the Tim unit, I use the probe which came with my multimeter, stuck in the rad.

Maplin do a range of different temperature measurement equipmet, it depends upon how you want to do it really.

The only problem I've thought of with having the probe in the rad is that it tells you the temp, erm, of the rad. I'd always like to keep the sender unit in the engine itself too, though, for obvious reasons :-)

Martyn

I've got a couple of great bits of kit at work, digital chart recorders made by Eurotherm Chessel.

But at about GBP3k apiece, you'd expect them to perform ...

Don't do anything until you have completely removed the thermostat with the present set up.

Take it for a good thrape and then check the temp again.

I've had about a 50 % hit ratio of duff thermostats to date.

Also what brand of temp gauge did you get. Before I cooked Morphs maplins one because your only supposed to use the sender up to 40 deg c I was showing 87 to 89 deg at 65mph (full tilt!).

Timing can also cause big overheating problems but as yours has just been done this shouldn't be an issue.

Must be a day for 101-ing,, I collected Morph today.

Lee D

Right then, whos volunteering to code some software to do a similar thing in a window box for multiple inputs... I wish I paid more attention in IT now to the finer detail.

and seing as I've got 4 Idle machines here can I get a power supply unit that I can drop in one such that it'll run from 12 volts... all be it an automotive 12 volts...i.e. 11 to 14.5 volts depending on if the wipers horn, heater etc etc are on.

Lee D

The software is a doddle.

However, you need an A to D converter though. I've done this in the past with a dedicated ISA card (that's how long ago it was!), but I imagine you can buy a little box that you can poll via RS232 (or just that sent the data on a regular time basis).

You might also need a multichannel comms controller

If you get the hardware together I will write the software (well, I'll assemble some software from the relevant bits I've already got written).

Tim Hobbs

'58 Series 2 '77 101FC Ambulance '95 Discovery V8i

Thermostat is nice and easy.. shall try this first. It was running totally without until i put the new rad in.

Its a TIM one from Halfords. Same as Martyns. About £30. Came from the one in Fenton. Comes with the right screw in bits.

It shouldnt be out. apart from the heat issues, the 101 runs very nicely. Is crusing (i.e. not thraping it!) around at about 45mph now without any trouble :)

Im thinking about copping out with my stripping, and just slapping some filler & paint over the top of the camo...

I wish. I was going to have a trip today, but the Discovery is immobile and blocking it in the drive. As the Series 2 is still in bits I currently have 3 unusable Land Rovers!

Still got beer though...

Tim Hobbs

'58 Series 2 '77 101FC Ambulance '95 Discovery V8i

I dont want to know that!

I dont think mines sucking. I'll go check the level of it tomorrow, see if it sucked anything back as it cooled.

Mines uniformly cool..

I really dont want to me taking the heads off unless i have to. The water pump should be easier, so i'd rather change that first.

Is it possible to fix all the problems? :)

I popped round to my parents earlier to make up some battery cables. It took me about 3 hours to leave...

Replying in my second language....

sheeww alllzz nottt lozzsstt then, theres allweeeys temorrow.... hic!

:-)

Lee D

Does this look like it would do the trick ?

Lee D

Only other thing I can think of is that if it's not the head is that somewhere there is a leak to atmosphere. I.e the systems not holding pressure thus allowing the water to boil far quicker than it should. This is usually a rad cap issue but I know you've been there and done that.

It sorted the same problem on my old renault espace ...H'mmmm

What pressure cap has it got and what is listed for the big boys? like RPi's big lumps and Overfinch lumps (given the extra stresses of a 101 gearing and weight)

Lee D

Mine takes about the same.. Surely the cooling system water level should sit higher than this?

Trick?

It would be a lot easier if it had a header tank on rather than an expansion one. Could keep that topped up easily.

Would it be possible to bodge one in at the top oif the rad somehow?. Split the top hose and send it to a header tank too? Do classic rangerovers with the same engine have header tanks?.. Can i stick one on the 101?

Ive noticed on the 101 especially how atleast one of the nuts/bolts for everything is obstructed by something else.. They must have had a man in the design team who went "ooh. we can't leave that like that, you can get at that screw too easily.. here, lets move this bit across infront of it..."