The law says, as far as I can determine, that everyone is supposed to wear seatbelts.
It further says (in defiance of common sense) that I'm responsible as driver for children under 14 wearing the belts.
Now, adult passengers can be prosecuted for not wearing the belt and can be fined.
However, children 14 and over are responsible for wearing belts, not the driver. But, and this is the actual question... If they're caught not wearing belts, who pays the fine, if any?
Austin Shackles uttered summat worrerz funny about:
Driver is responsible for children wearing seatbelts up to the age of 14. Over 14 it is the responsibility of the individual passengers.
If you have a under 14 declining to "belt up" then basically show them the van door.
As for the fine, that would be the kid in question whom the ticket is made out to.
Any fixed penalty ticket is basically a roadside admission of guilt and agreement to be dealt with by way of a fixed penalty. Now it's been a while since I had a book of tickets in my hand but after the ticket is issued I'm sure you have 28 days to change your mind / return payment after which there is a summons issued and the matter is dealt with at court.
Funny bit of legistlation but hey... we don't write the stuff!
LOn or around Wed, 12 Dec 2007 00:12:34 -0000, "Lee_D" enlightened us thusly:
it's the over-14s I'm bothered about. I actually do want them to wear belts
- unlike them, I've been in collisions and know what it feels like, and you aren't going to avoid flying around inside the vehicle, however clever you think you are.
so long as they make the ticket with the kid's name on, and THEY pay the fine, and there're no points on MY licence, I don't GAF, TBH. But I'd still prefer it if they wore the belts anyway.
'tis, innit. Mostly, it's the parents that cop fines for youngsters, although in a real sense it is anyway as they won't have money...
.. like the case I read about in a paper recently (so it must be true) of a woman who was being beaten up by her own teenage son so much she called the police and had him done for assault. Rather than a custodial sentence he got a fine, which she had to pay..
Austin Shackles uttered summat worrerz funny about:
Just make it a condition of conveyance, regardless of the law they either belt up or bog off.
Nothing like 10 stone of teenager in the back of the head to spoil your day.
Lee D
In message , Lee_D writes
Except that in a collision they will weigh nearer ten tons.
I have an FFR 90 with radio racking, some Clansman radio sets and a roll bar between the 3 front seats and those sat in the back so I guess it might be 10 stone of minced teen, but here is another question on seatbelts.
The 2 seats in the back, one on each side on the wheelarch, both single inward facing factory fitted items, removable (i.e. not bolted down), don't have seatbelts, and there are no mountings for seatblets. Don't suppose you know what the score is regarding driving with passengers in the back. The 14 age thing will be important as well, especially if I have some Air Cadets in there, I don't want them flying before we get to the airfield.
I wouldn't discount the fitting of belts though, probably have to be lapbelts. Forward facing folding seats won't work as the radio table and battery box take up so much legroom. I was kind of hoping the fact that they are a factory fit, the age of the vehicle, 1986, etc, might help.
Ta very much
Hi Wayne,
I'd be surprised if the ATC (Air Training Corps for the uninitiated) have separate rules to the rest of the cadet forces; in which case you are not permitted to carry cadets in the back of your Landie unless it has forward facing seats and seat belts. It's the same rule that stopped us carrying cadets in the Mk 1 & 2 cadet helicopters (aka 4-tonner and Land Rover respectively).
Not being a member of the cadet forces any more I can't provide chapter and verse on the rule but it's been in pace for at least ten years. The age of the vehicle is irrelevant to the ruling, btw.
On or around Wed, 12 Dec 2007 16:17:30 -0000, "Lee_D" enlightened us thusly:
I could fit a nice strong barrier behind the driver's seat.
nah, it's not feasible really. The problem is that age 14 is just the point where they're looking for things to rebel against.
I'll find out if the particular offenders are made to wear belts in the family car...
Reckon I agrees with Lee! Belt up or walk!
On or around Wed, 12 Dec 2007 17:03:54 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@lardrover.co.uk enlightened us thusly:
I can answer that, I reckon. Organised trips with children on board "must" have forward-facing seats (or, I think, rearward) with belts. Retro-fitted belts must have suitable mountings, the correct bolt is 7/16" UNF and non-reinforced floor mount points must have suitable reinforcement under the floor.
the key lies in the "organised" bit. You can carry your own kids, or friends' kids, but something like scout trips or similar counts as "organised".
I think 86 makes it pre-rear-seat belt fitment, but since it's a van originally, that's probably not an issue anyway. Chances are the FFR is not "factory" but "modified", anyway, from a legalistic POV.
Yep, no sideways facing. Ran a trip to cash and carry for my young enterprise girls (they have to run a company). Me, plus female member of staff and 5 girls. No probs, load everything into the trailer the
5 girls can sit on the back seat and the *factory fitted* rear seats in the boot of the disco. Oh No! Had to hire a minibus, which cost the school nearly £100 quid, as we had to pay for the days hire, extra insurance plus fuel, to make a round trip of 21 miles....-- "For those who are missing Blair - aim more carefully."
To reply direct rot13 me
bURRt the 101 Camper
Me to.
A penny for a pound that if you did have a minor bump and little 14yo Johnny got a bit shaken up the parents would be onto you like a ton of bricks for failing in your "duty of care".
Worng Disco... B-) Disco II "boot" seats are forward facing with head restraints and full lap/diagonal seatbelt.
I can see the headlines now.. "Bus driver leaves kids stranded on school trip" ;-)
The law is an ass.
On or around Thu, 13 Dec 2007 18:44:16 +1300, EMB enlightened us thusly:
indeed. The single sideways seats (with lap belts, mind) in the disco are not significantly less safe in a shunt than any other seat with a lap belt. The legislation was to stop people using the old-style unbelted crewbuses for school work, which was less safe.
'course, none of the buggers will WEAR the damn' belts now we have 'em, hence the beginning of this thread.
On or around Wed, 12 Dec 2007 22:29:00 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Liquorice" enlightened us thusly:
not in this case, I've spoken to the parents in the past about it, and had them speak to the children, and they wear the belts, for all of about a week.
On or around Wed, 12 Dec 2007 23:24:14 +0000, Ian Rawlings enlightened us thusly:
exactly - I'm not allowed to boot them out. I could refuse to carry them in the first place, by not picking them up in the morning.
Mind, I know one driver of a 52 seater who had trouble with rowdy behaviour; he stopped the bus, switched off, took the key and walked off up the road.
within 2 minutes the principal offenders came after him to apologise and ask him to come back and please take us home? :-)
Works with my kids if they are playing up. Find a layby, pull over, switch off and wait. There will be noise to start with but within 5 minuets they realise that we really aren't going anywhere until they settle down. Decent (I'm not saying good) behaviour normally lasts for the rest of the journey as well.
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