Power of 300TDi

Twas Wed, 27 Oct 2004 13:03:33 +0200 when "fanie" put finger to keyboard producing:

my 1984 110 2.5n/a diesel has a towing capacity of 3500kg. for 'towing capacity' read 'low first and it might shift it but don't think of going near traffic'.

Regards. Mark.(AKA, Mr.Nice.)

fanie posted:

I run a '96 300Tdi Disco, but manual gearbox and tow a caravan weighing 850 kgs and carry about 350 kgs of gear in the boot, with two adults and two children (9 & 12) and have very few problems towing anywhere at almost any speed I want t go at.

The heaviest I've towed is a trailer with another Disco on. We kept it down to 50 mph, but could have gone way faster if we had wanted. Safety was our only reason for keeping the speed down.

Maybe it's all a bit clogged up and needs a few decent thrashes to 'clear it out'.

Good breathing is the key to maintaining performance with any diesel, I find.

Point very much taken!

Perhaps it is the Auto that is robbing all the poines? I think that I shall try one of those RS components pressure transducers to see what sort of boost pressure I am actually getting and then if that fails perhaps it is onto the dyno, although I am not too sure if there are too many four wheel capable dynos in my area.

Regards Stephen

PS: After just blowing the motor (admittedly with a broken water hose) I am a little weary of thrashing anything, hence the old fart's fuel consumption. Just as well as I hear that we can expect another 23c/l added onto the price of our diesel. Still I am sure it is a lot less than you are paying in Sunny old England.

On or around Wed, 27 Oct 2004 13:03:33 +0200, "fanie" enlightened us thusly:

it might need tuning.

I've a text file that I really should update a bit, which describes the process, if you want.

Oh, yes please. :) It's coming around to that just-how-many-fluids-am-I- buying-here service time. I can see myself taking a week off work just to do all the things I want to on her.

And I noticed yesterday that the rear door hinges are reapidly gathering a lot of rust, and some bastard has nudged me in the back - just enough to buckle the bumper and the bumper endcap. Bastards. *sigh*

Ta, Aled.

Hi Stephen, from my experience there are problems that you are experiencing on your 300, and given that it is an auto the problems are exasherbated. I would imagine that when the engine is cold, it would be a challenge to pull the "skin off a rice pudding".

Probably 80% of your problem comes from the fact that injector pump and camshaft are retarded. This is fairly common and due to the way your timing belt behaves and performs.

The other 20% is an issue of breathing. Again this is a manufacturing issue with the 300, but a simple fix. Actually the fix is two part.

1. Use only clean air filters. A few pounds spent on putting in a new air filter can make a big difference. I would recommend staying with a genuine LR one as they work well, until they become clagged.

1. The inlet manifold is supposed to have round ports that match up with the round ports on the head. My experience is that while the ports on the head are round the inlet manifold ports are somewhere between a circle and an oval. If you port match the inlet manifold you will find much better mid and top range "breathing.

The problem with the belt can only be fixed by going to the Zeus gears. (Yes I am bias 'cause I sell them in Australia). Our studies at a local university show a 27% increase in power at the bottom end. At the bottom of the following page you will find the dyno work done at the Chisholm Institute on their 4wd dyno.

I've personall y been involved in at least 6 autos, and in all cases the power improvement was seen by the owners as "significant". This was especially so with people who reguarly towed a horse trailer with

Anyway, I comment based on some of my experiences, but with a declared commercial interest in one of the mentioned products.

Cheers

Phillip Simpson

How much are they ? What advantages over fitting a chain do they offer ?

Steve

Hi all, just thought I'd throw my two pence worth in. I run a 300 TDi Disco ES Auto with EDC, The only time I find it slow is when taking off from a standing start, the other two Disco's I've ownd were manuals without EDC, so you could rev the engine and get the turbo spinning, the only way to do that with the auto is to press the brake and throttle at the same time, then it takes off fairly well. I havn't noticed any difference between cold and hot running. I threw an e-mail to zeus gears but never got a reply, sort of put me off them.

Peter.

So Steve Taylor was, like

Lots. The figure of 600 GBP comes to mind, but ICBW.

In theory, compared with a new chain, correctly adjusted, nothing. In practice, they are much more robust, never stretch and go out of tune, and last forever. They are also significantly noisier than a chain or belt. I'm only going on what I have heard, but if I still had a diesel I would be saving the pennies for one. One of the mags did a write-up a couple of years ago. I'll look it out for you if you're interested.

Timing belts a la 300 TDi tend to snap not stretch.

Peter

Hi Peter, have to agree that they can snap, but also disagree about them stretching. In fact if you fit a belt part of the installation process is to tighten them tightly, turn the engine around a couple of times, and then retighten them. Even with this process they stretch in a very short time.

Having fitted a large number of gear kits, I have never seen a timing belt that wasn't stretched and as a result caused the retardation of both the pump and cam shaft. Remember it doesn't take much to "detune" an engine.

Speaking to owners I had one customer who noticed that over a period of some 9 months his vehicle was slowing loosing power. (he and a fishing mate, used to both drive up a long steepish hill in their vehicles. Initially the 300Tdi always beat the Pajero(Shogun?) but this changed to a draw, then the pajero would always win the race up the hill.)

As to noise, yes at idle they make a little more noise, but this is just the noise from the lifters in the pump that were previously "insulated" by the rubber belt. Once running it is hard to tell the difference.

Even with a new belt I've never seen a 300Tdi pull properly down to

Cheers

Phillip

Steve

Given how critical diesel injector pump timing is I think a chain would tend to be unsatisfactory in the accuracy stakes.

Why ? Its the way it was done for years, before manufacturers reckoned on making quieter and cheaper timing gear. The tolerances created by the backlash in a gear train are not negligible.

Steve

Hi Steve, prior to the recent fuel pricing increase, I calculated that within about 75000km, and assuming belt changes every 50000km, and a fuel saving of 10%(varies somewhere between 10-12%), a comparrison of

This is purely an accounting exercise, and doesn't take into account the improved driveability.

Cheers

Phillip

Factory fit chains tend to have a hydraulic tensioner, AFAICT there's no easy way to retrofit one to the front of a Tdi.

As for gear tolerances, my Chev racecar engines fitted with timing gears have no discernable timing movement (ie

On or around Mon, 01 Nov 2004 14:15:08 +1300, EMB enlightened us thusly:

you could perhaps do it with a morse chain a la V8, but I suspect that gets away with no tensioner by being very short.

the gear set is cute, no doubt. How do they get lubricated? or don't they?