Veggie Oil

Honest answer is I dunno ...

What I can say is my '96/'97 Disco 300 Tdi runs fine on it. Slight increase in power, slight increase in mpg, ie for the better, quiter running, waay cheaper ... ;)

I'd glance the owners manual, it may say within.

My 2003 RR TD6 manual states specifically a big No to biodiesel.

Lee D

i'd be interested to hear how you get on. From what I can work out the subject i would try with a smaller percentage of oil first before going 50/50, especially as it's going to be getting colder and the oil will be alot thicker. My mate runs 60/40 in his rover, but as soon as he goes to 50/ 50 it starts playing up. Odd Not that I want to use you as a guinea pig or anything, but let me know what happens and if it works i might starting a bit in my P38

Dave

On or around Tue, 27 Nov 2007 23:15:44 -0000, "Lee_D" enlightened us thusly:

which is odd, bearing in mind that "proper" biodiesel, if you can get it, is supposed to be the same.

Quite and most pump "dino" diesels can have up to 5% (or is it 10%) "bio" diesel...

Arse covering I suspect for countries where fuel quality is somewhat more variable than it is here.

On or around Wed, 28 Nov 2007 08:38:14 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Liquorice" enlightened us thusly:

I could understand if it says "no SVO".

We started with 10 litres veg oil to a tankfull, say 50 litres diesel, then went to 20:40 litres and it now varies between 30/30 litres and 25 veg 35 diesel depending on what's handy as we fill up. ;)

We haven't had any problems. Mine's always been a slow starter on very cold days but it's no worse with whichever level of mix we use.

We've done maybe 2500 miles, varied, mostly towing caravan, maybe 200 off-road miles, low-box stuff and again whatever we do with the Disco it just seems easier to do it.

Changed diesel and oil filters after about 700 miles, oil looks fine, sediment bowl looks fine, everything looks like it's an ordinary diesel.

So, actually, there's nothing to report ... ;)

For confidence I'd do the same as we did, 10 litres to start with before a top-up, then however you feel it's going.

It's definitely made a dent on our budget, using oil at 50p a litre ... ;)

On or around 29 Nov 2007 22:35:34 GMT, "Paul - xxx" enlightened us thusly:

one minor point: do you add SVO to the tank first, then add diesel, or the other way round, or both?

I'm just wondering about mixing. Also, has anyone decided whether they stay mixed?

Bio-diesel at the pump is generally less than 5% vegetable oil, see DofT

The issue with bio-diesel is not whether your vehicle will run on it, but whether it will cause the engine to fail due to deposits or lack of lubrication. When car manufacturers tell you not to use it, it could be because the effects are not known, or it could be because they have tested it and it has caused problems - we won't know. However I would have thought it would increasingly damage sales to market a vehicle that can't run on bio-diesel - so its probably worth pestering the new vehicle sales people - see if they have changed their recommendation. I bet there is testing going on right now.

Its great that you guys are testing what can and can't be done, and so far I don't hear of a lot of problems with old type mechanical injectors. But beware that if you have to replace a modern injection system or electronic injectors then it will cost a small fortune.

Steve

Generally I add veg oil to the tank as I buy it then drive to whichever petrol station is cheapest or I have an offer voucher for. (Sainsburys Rapeseed Oil @ 52p litre or corn oil if rape n/a also @ 52p litre) and then generally tescos with 5p off litre of diesel. ;)

As an experiment I syphoned some diesel out of the tank directly after a fill up that equated to 25 litres of veg 35 litres diesel when I got home, approx a mile, if that. Moved the pipe up and down in the tank so the syphoned liquid wasn't from the same level and could see no separation at all. Indeed it was a uniform very pale yellow/straw colour ... nothing like as deeply coloured as red diesel, but certainly not clear/bluish tinge like straight diesel.

I'd say it mixes well.

Actually that's a good thought. The Disco has been stood for most of this week, so I'll syphon some off and have another look later this pm. I reckon five days of being stood still should give separation plenty time to occur.

Also pipework and other rubber parts is supposed to be an issue in some cars, with the veg oil affecting the rubber and causing it to weaken and fail. According to some articles on veg oil I read yonks ago.

Personally I'd use it in old vehicles or vehicles that I'm not expecting to keep for more than a year or two more, given that there's no real consensus possible on how it'll affect a given car, given that the cars are not designed for it. My defender ran on 100% SVO for about 4 months many years ago and still runs fine without issues now.

No different, straw coloured liquid, no sign of globules or separation that I could see.

There is another aspect to it, and I might be repeating myself from times gone bye.

In the old days Castrol R40 (vegetable) engine oil was better than the mineral oils of the day, and almost all racers used it. I am 50-ish and remember the smell to this day when we went to the 'scrambles' (moto-cross), where it was also used in the 2-stroke mix. If you took an engine and swapped it to Castrol R as a lubricant, then no problems. If you wanted to swap back it was said you had to strip it and scrub every component with paraffin to get the mineral oil to work again - it was as if the vegetable oil had laid something down on the surfaces that repelled the mineral oil.

So here we are 40 years on, and now we are dealing with electronic injectors with micron sized holes. Old diesels had tolerances of a tenth of a thou or less in their pumps, and now we are finer than that. A certain proportion of the oil get heated up in the engine then returns via the spill rail. There could be issues of thermal degradation (ever cleaned a chip pan), or acidity - and any hint of corrosion in a super close fit pump could be an issue.

I don't want to put you off saving money, or saving the planet. However I think the jury is out on the latest electronic injectors at this stage.

In subtle but significant ways, true veggie oil is really different at a fundamental level from your regular diesel - and of course the regular diesel has a lot of specially formulated additives in it to clean valves, anti-foaming, lubrication, and other chemical regulators. These are things that you wouldn't want in your chip pan.

Steve

I am still experimenting thus far (10days) I have no separation of a 50/50 mix left in my garage ambient temperature is varying too much at the moment between 8deg and -1deg next stage will be refridgeration first though I need to find my little thermometer .Kato is running quite happily on 25% svo aside from a flat battery last week after leaving the interior lights on DOH! Derek

Heheheh, call me stupid if you like, call me feckin' thick ... but I didn't even think of mixing them outside the Disco and seeing what happens ... I just went ahead and threw it in ... ;)

I'd also hazard a guess that me syphoning some off might mix it during the process as well ... ;)

Think I'll mix a couple of litres of each and leave them on a shelf in the shed, see what happens.

Ok then. I'm sure it's been covered here, but I can't find the thread!

So which veg oil should I put in my old transit van?

Sunflower Ordinary 'veg' oil

or..

Will anything do, - so long as it's clean? And on that point... How about cooking my chips and then using the used oil, - after filtering it?

(I plan to do a 50/50 mix)

TIA

Dunno about the chip fat, but I just buy the cheapest available veg oil on the shelf and dump it into the tank ... ;)

Best oil I've found, however, is pure Rapeseed oil. Seems a tad thinner viscosity and does seem to make a difference.

Rapeseed was the stuff that all the websites I looked at reckoned was the only one to use about 5 years ago, one reason being the thickness, can't remember the rest.

We've certainly found that Rapeseed is almost as different to 'normal' blended veg oil as normal veg oil is to diesel.

Other good one, we find, is pure sunflower oil, but that tends to be 80 ish pence as opposed to 50 ish p for rapeseed ... ;)