What should I have paid?

I recently bought a 3.9 engine off Ebay. Paid 210 quid. Described as being in good working order when removed from vehicle with overhauled heads and recent replacement camshaft. Camshafts usually last about 100,000 miles so that was the sort of age engine I was expecting. My intention was to strip it, check everything, have the bores honed, the crank polished and fit new bearings and rings.

On arrival it didn't look good. It was bought without inlet or exhaust manifolds and the valley gasket was very rusty. The ports had kitchen paper stuffed in them - which was wet.

On stripping down several bores were full of water as was the sump - which had been drained of oil. The tappets were worn - good ones are flat on the bottom, these were bell shaped. I didn't have any measurements for a new cam lobe, but the lobes varied in height by over 4mm. So the cam and followers were scrap.

I cleaned up the rust from the bores as best I could without using abrasives and removed the pistons. The thrust side big end bearing shells had copper showing - but no scoring. Mains looked fine. The crank wasn't rusty and showed no wear I could feel between big ends. The bores didn't appear to have a lip at the top. No rings were broken.

I've had a machine shop check things and they say the crank is fine but the block will need a re-bore due to the rust.

What would have been a fair price for this engine? The seller has responded after I've put the matter in dispute with Ebay as not being as described, but I'm unsure what would be a decent settlement. Ie, what would one expect to pay for an engine in unknown condition which had been badly stored? The rebore, new pistons and camshaft with tappets will cost me in excess of 500 quid.

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)
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Hmmmm

I Would Send it Back & Ask for my Money to be returned did you pay cash or Pay Pal ? Regards Skinty

Reply to
skinty

Recent scrap replacement camshaft?

Is it worth the faffing about and what else are you going to find? Sounds a very well worn engine with an inaccurate description. Don't let the eBay seller get away with it, refund and return.

Reply to
Dave Liquorice

Did the auction say how long it had been stood? 'recent replacement camshaft' doesn't mean it was done well, properly or with a new for old replacement, did you ask any further questions?

Did he say that the bores, pistons, cam and tappets were good?

What's the auction number? A lot depends on what his description says and what you've inferred from that.

Reply to
Paul - xxx

I'd reckon a rebuildable engine without manifolds as being worth 50 quid (or otherwise just the scrap value of the aluminium).

Reply to
EMB

I bought a 3.9 off ebay in the summer for the 101.

I paid £100 for a 3.9efi, with no starter, alternator or dissy.

I also rebuilt mine (I spent a further £300 doing this - but did every gasket, had the heads skimmed for composite gaskets and put new bearings, piston rings,timing bits, and a cam in and bought a clutch and various other bits ad bobs too. I didn't have the block machined but just de- glazed the bores myself) From looking at the condition of it as i stripped it I could have got away without the rebuild as it was all pretty good inside - Not that i was going to because i didn't want the hassle of swapping the engine in the 101 again! ;)

I think you paid about £100 too much!

Reply to
Tom Woods

I spent a couple of months trying to buy a 3.9. I was going to get a whole rangie to start with but decided i didnt have the space in the end and kept getting slightly outbid - my budget for a whole 3.9 RR with a month or 2 of mot and tax was £400. I would have done this eventually!

A 3.5 is worth £50 (or slightly less), but the 3.9 is worth a bit more as it is more desirable and is assumedly being used as an upgrade for the

3.5s that later end up back on ebay at £50 ;).
Reply to
Tom Woods

It said new - but I've given the item number below. And gave the price I paid wrongly - it was more. ;-)

You'd not replace a cam (surely) without replacing tappets - unless they were perfect which they weren't.

330163401189
Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

Cash, sadly.

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

It did have heads which appear to be good.

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

I realise these prices go by demand at the time - but I think you've got the price about right. I'm intending doing exactly the same rebuild but wasn't expecting to need a new cam and followers. Or really a re-bore.

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

Learn from it and move on, I think.

Reply to
Rich B

Oh indeed. And sadly as I've had nothing but positive experiences with some 350 Ebay transactions - although mainly for much smaller amounts. I have invoked the Ebay disputes proceeder and met the seller when he delivered it for a reasonable sum who seemed a nice bloke so haven't yet lost all hope of some form of settlement.

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

On or around Tue, 23 Oct 2007 23:16:40 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)" enlightened us thusly:

I've got a 3.9 cam, followers and HD tubular pushrods sitting in the shed, with not many miles on 'em. They're doing nothing but go rusty. Yours for a suitable contribution. I'll give them a close look if you're interested - I think they'll clean up OK, they were oily when removed but that was some time ago.

Reply to
Austin Shackles

"Bolt right on" good, or "machine valves and seats, replace valve guides" good?

Reply to
EMB

So it's worth what you paid for it less the price of a cam, a set of followers, a set of oversize pistons and the cost of the machining. I have a feeling the vendor probably owes you a few quid.

Reply to
EMB

Jeez, Dave, that's a pile of s**te and you've read it all wr You say "Described as being in good working order when removed from vehicle" The auction says "was fine when i took it out" That doesn't say 'good working order' at all just that it was fine ... and it's been stood for

2 years since, probably in the back yad until they got fed up tripping over it.

You say "with overhauled heads and recent replacement camshaft" The auction says "it had a new cam and rebuilt heads" Doesn't say anything about when they were done at all. IMHO if they were 'recent' then why remove the engine and then leave it standing for two years?

You say "It was bought without inlet or exhaust manifold" The auction says "it is just the engine you will bid on no alt starter etc" So you knew it had _nothing_ extra to come. Just 'cos it shows an exhaust manifold in the pic doesn't mean it will come with one.

Sorry, but TBH all the signs of a lump of scrap were there and I don't think you have much, if any, comeback at all. personally, I wouldn't have bid ?40 on it, let alone ?240. You didn't even ask any questions before bidding. Mind, that shouldn't stop you trying to get something back out of them, and after looking at the bids it wouldn't surprise me if 'bidder 1' wasn't his mate shill bidding for him ...

Good luck with it. ;)

Reply to
Paul - xxx

I'll give you the dictionary definition of 'fine':-

Collins GEM English Dictionary fine¹ adj. very good; in good health; acceptable; thin or slender; in small particles; subtle or abstruse,

And if someone asks you how you are and you say 'fine' it's generally accepted you have no health problems. Now something that couldn't run without serious work *has* problems.

Had it been properly covered it would have come to no harm. And that simply means a waterproof cover. My brother kept an engine for 20 years outside properly covered and it was fine when needed. Plenty of engines - tractors etc - effectively live outside.

By your reckoning everything could be described as having a new whatever since it was once new. However, if you look at the pic the heads are cleaner than the rest which suggests recent work. The condition of the cam and tappets suggested they were original. But I can give you further information. The OP said by email he'd bought the engine from his brother to fit to his Marcos but found it too difficult a job so aborted the idea.

I mentioned that as the reason the engine was full of water - a complete engine is reasonably waterproof. I wasn't expecting to get these bits. Nor did i want or need them. Just that anyone with a scrap of sense would see that leaving a V-8 outside with no inlet manifold and no covering will mean water will get into both inlet ports and sump - unless it is covered.

Well your experience of Ebay must be very different from mine. After some

350 transactions this is the first I've had with something not being as described - or indeed better than described. My experience is most selling this sort of thing are more than honest.

It's not going to break me since it's just a hobby car. Sadly it will go some way to removing my faith in Ebayers selling this sort of thing. The whole system relies on trust to work. I take it you never use it?

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

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