ES330 owners

The 2002 and 2003 ES300 has a widely known problem with a sluggish transmission. One of the key complaints is that if you're merging into interstate traffic or trying to punch it to pass, the tranny stops to think it over for anywhere from 1 to 3 seconds before kicking in. By then, you could be smack in the middle of a high speed accident. Lexus produced a "fix" for the ES300 tranny, but some have claimed it didn't help, and there have even been reports from customers that their dealership has recommended not applying the fix.

It's clear that Lexus has acknowledged a major problem with the ES300 tranny. Witness that they came out with the "all new" ES300 for 2002, yet they have already produced a "new and improved" version of the ES, called it the ES330, with the same body style as the ES300. Legally, that was their best way to fix the problems with the ES300 without having any responsibility to the ES300 owners. They don't have to formally admit they undersized the ES300 engine or transmission, they can just say they are continuing to evolve their lineup. I don't ever recall a time that Lexus has introduced a model redesign, then turned it into an old model just 2 years later. They basically shafted all their loyal ES300 owners by killing resale. I'd really just like to know if anyone has purchased the ES330 to upgrade their sluggish ES300, and what differences they have noticed in performance.

I own a 2002 Camry LE V6 with the 4 Speed auto transmission. I have not had any issues with transmission hesitation whatsoever. The comment of the ES300 having an underpowered engine is absurd since the weight difference between the Camry and ES300 is about 200 lbs at most. If a 4 cyl camry with

30 less horsepower can easily pass cars then power is not the issue.. but the delivery of the power (transmission) may be questioned.

Most states have lemon laws and you have your new car warranty. If this is a problem, Lexus is legally bound to fix or replace the transmission.

recommended

I own a 2001 ES300 an have no problem with acceleration getting into traffic. There is a slight hesitation ( half a second or so) but not enough for me to lose sleep. I had a 2001 Camry LE (four banger) and even that car didn't have that much problem with acceleration.

The problem is only with the 2002 and 2003 ES300, that's why they stopped making it in favor of the upgraded ES330 with the stronger engine. As far as comparing a 2001 Camry, and Car Guy's 2002 Camry, there is no comparison. The 2002/2003 ES300 has an electronically controlled transmission, or drive-by-wire, where your foot action on the pedal goes to a computer, and the computer decides the fuel flow and transmission behavior. The Camry models use a conventional mechanical accelerator, an entirely different mechanism, and not subject to the problems of the 2002/2003 ES300.

take NOTE that the ES300 has two things.

one, electronically controlled transmission. there IS an updated program for the ECM which is being done at lexus dealers nationwide under warrantee. this is not an issue of being underpowered, but rather of software deficiency. as far as i know, this has been immensely better.

two, this is a FBW (Fly By Wire) System. there is no direct connection between your foot and the throttle body, the cable having been replaced by a computer and servos. personally, going from a cable TB to a FBW TB is DEFINITELY noticable, because there is a lag between your input and the computer response.

yes, i know it sucks, but you shoud have noticed this when you bought it. however, i haven't heard too many complaints after reprogramming the ECM and ECT for those customers with a noticable problem.

Also of note, the engine change was due to the fact that the RX330 was introduced in April the 2 cars, along with the Camry which also gets the 3.3 liter engine for '04 share the same basic engine. As far as resale value of the 02-03 ES300';s the model change to 330 should have no effect because the cars basic features/body style have not changed (in the past the GS400/430 changeover caused no drop in resale). The LS400/430 did have a resale drop due to the complete redesign of the body/interior not the extra .3 liter increase in the engine.

Myles Bauer

"MudPuppy1976

i got to thinking, do people actually think that adding .3L will fix the 'underpowered' complaints? there is so much more to power than those .3L !

My '02 is much worse (overall) after the reprogramming. I now has an exaggerated delay when applying gas after slowing to a very slow roll. Most problems I had before the reprogramming were noticeable, but hardly worth complaining about (except the engine racing when accelerating onto a highway from about 40 MPH, or so).

After reprogramming (actually, they replaced the ECU chip in my case), I'm left with what I feel is a vehicle with major safety concerns. I'm just stuck with it, I suppose.

Lexus has failed miserably with their attempt at "Drive-by wire".

"Relentless pursuit of perfection"? - I think not. They even deny there's a problem. I own and drive the car - and there IS a problem. It is far from perfection, and they're pursuing nothing.

I just went for my 1,000 mile checkup. Does anyone know if the reflash upgrade is a standard part of that service or must I ask for it?

This lack of instant acceleration is a big bummer for me and I would not buy another Lexus, based purely on this fact. When I buy a car that costs more than $30K, I would expect it to respond better than a $15,000 car. Is that really asking for too much?

We all know the disadvantages of the so-called fly by wire system. What are the advantages? Is it just fuel economy? I'd gladly suffer 1 or 2 miles per gallon if I could get a car that doesn't make me afraid of making an agressive highway pass.

I've gotta tell all of you....I had an '02 ES300 for a year until I decided to upgrade to an LS430. Had 10,000 miles. I never "got" this transmission "thing". My car was great. I just don't get it. And, by the way, I got a GREAT trade in resale price. And it was for real, because that was AFTER I made the deal on the new ride before the dealer (a different dealer than where I originally bot the '02 ES300) even knew I had an ES.

Would you be willing to disclose what the dealer paid for your 2002 ES300? I am considering trading/selling mine, and it would be helpful to know what other vehicles are going for. CarMax offered me $26,000 for mine this past weekend, it's in excellent condition with 24,700 miles.

I'd grab it. I got $27,500 for the same car with 10,000 miles. And that was

3 weeks ago....prices are rapidly eroding as the new model year rolls out...and 25K miles is a LOT more "used" than 10K miles.

transmission

Great, thanks for the candid reply. I was going to speak with my local Lexus dealer first and see how competitive they could be on a package deal.

I am not saying you should trade...just saying that IF you DO trade, $26K for a vehicle as you describe, assuming that's the REAL price (and not some artificial price made up by overpaying for the new ride) seems on the highish side of right. What will you get? A new ES330 without the so-called transmission problem? Or something else?

Steve, Depending on the state you live in you may receive a "tax credit" for your trade in i.e. in Illinois a 26000.00 car would get a 7% tax credit towards a new car so your 26000.00 car is really worth 27820.00 with this example. Bear this in mind if you sell it to carmax you won't get a tax credit. Also in regards to the hesitation issue when the car gets reprogrammed it has no memory anymore ( the trans is adaptive depending on driving style) give it about 1000 miles to reprogram to your driving habits. they can be pretty bad when first reprogrammed till they learn how to shift.

Myles

Well, the same hesitation complaint is being levelled against tens of car models these days. This is not a Lexus-only problem.

Customers want ultra-smooth cars with seamless shifts, great gas mileage, ultra-low emissions, and every safety and convenience system known to man (ABS, TCS, VSC, brake-assist, adapative cruise control, etc.). This goals are best met by putting the engine (with variable valve timing) and transmission under computer control. To get these benfits, we're seeing some tradeoffs in immediate responsiveness in certain driving situations. Some of it is bugs (which get fixed in updates), some of it is insufficient computer power, some of it is grafting modern electronics onto older hardware. It will get better.

All cars are tradeoffs. Lexus didn't do this to make you mad. These hesitations, if they're as severe as some of you say, are readily apparant during a test drive. I think there should be some acceptance that one car can't be perfect and do everything well, and more responsibility to critically select a car that has the best compromise for your particular driving requirements.

- Mark

Not entirely true. I wouldn't say the hesitation is readily apparent during a test drive, as you can't possibly test every scenario during a test drive. Only a professional could be expected to analytically pick apart every aspect of a car's performance in such a short time, that's a lot to ask of the average consumer, especially the average Lexus consumer. I've heard that line before, "you should have test driven it", but that's a copout. There is still no explanation why Lexus would drop the "brand new" restyled ES300 just 2 short years after its introduction, other than they needed to cut their losses on a poor engine/transmission design and move on quickly.

insufficient

I'm not sure what I would get yet, I'm still on the fence. I hate losing the depreciation of the first 2 years, and I've actually never turned a car around that quickly. It would depend on the quality of the deal and if the new ES330 really resolves the tranny issues. I have an appointment to install the tranny update in the ES300, so it may wait until that gives me some results. Heart of hearts, I'd prefer a gas/electric hybrid, but I can't swing the cost for the new hybrid RX330. I don't even know the price, but I figure that'll be around $40k.