Nitrogen In Tires

Does anyone know if this "nitrogen in tires" thing really produces the results claimed?

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wrote:

Nitrogen is undiputedly better than plain air, but the costs do not seem to make this a good deal, unless the car will be driven only a small amount each year, and the main threat to the lifetime of the tires is internal sidewall degradation from aging (oxidation).
Nitrogen, being slightly less dense than oxygen, has larger molecules which will leak out of the tire a bit more slowly. Nitrogen also does not expand and contract quite as much with changes in temperature, so tire pressures stay a bit more constant. This means, however, that nitrogen-filled tires should be filled to a slightly higher "cold" pressure, as the normal (air) pressures assume a heating rate when driving that is appropriate for air-filled tires.
Aircraft tires can benefit significantly from nitrogen, as they are used in a much harsher environment than car tires. Nitrogen is also virtually inert, so cannot feed a fire the same way the oxygen in air can. -Jay-
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Costco Cda uses nitrogen in their tire service bays. I wondered whether or not the moisture content injected with nitrogen is similar as the moisture injected from air pumps at regular gas bars. I have stopped using gas bar air pumps due to the vast amount of moisture ejected by those units. Do we need to be concerned with water in our tires?
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What is a "gas bar" air pump?????

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No.

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wrote:

No to what?

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Jay Somerset < wrote:

Wheel-well fires are a serious threat on aircraft. It seems all of the higher speed aircraft uses nitrogen. My aircraft I fill up every month. The inner tubes are natural rubber and hence bleed out the air. Not like on cars. Yep, innertubes! Two piece rims.
John
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If you regularly check and maintain your tire pressure with dry air, then nitrogen has no meaningful benefits in your car tires. With air, if the atomsphere is humid and the compressor does not have well-maintained drying equipment, it can cause corrosion on the wheel and valve stem. Wet air will also have more variance in pressure as the tire temperature rises and falls. Most service stations and even many tire shops do not have quality dryers for the compressed air lines. Nitrogen systems remove water as well as oxygen, so this can be a benefit. Also, if you are forgetful and many months typically go by between your tire pressure checks, nitrogen will maintain the pressure longer. This means you can get a somewhat false sense of security, but your safety and fuel economy will be maintained longer with no maintenance. Nitrogen inflation is not an excuse to neglect your tire pressure! You need to ask yourself how much these benefits are worth to you.
On Fri, 19 Jan 2007 10:15:45 -0500, Jay Somerset

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Air is mostly nitrogen (~78%) and the rest is mostly oxygen (~21%). Long pause.
There are two reasons to use nitrogen instead of the same air you breath.
One is that nitrogen is typically dry compared to room air. If you worry about small amounts of water vapor in your tires, you will view this as a benefit.
The other is that oxygen is a corrosive gave and MAY cause earlier internal aging of your tires and any corrosion-labile things inside the wheel/tire assembly.
Given that the outside of you tires is nicely bathed in air, I see little point in worrying about oxygen inside the tire.
If you have too much money, go waste it on nitrogen fills if you like. Just don't expect any benefit.

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nopcbs wrote:

Nitrogen in tanks, you mean.

More so under pressure.

See above.

True. Automotive pressure not to significant. Higher performance aircraft however are different.
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The last 3 cars I've owned (1997 ES300, 1987 Acura Legend Coupe, 1983 Firebird) all developed leaky/corroded rims after about 3 to 5 years. The tires start to lose pressure and when I go to the tire store they say that the slow leak is caused by corroded rims. They sand down the rim and reseal the tubeless tires. Sometimes the tires still leaked a little. The tire store warned me that they can only sand down the rims so much before I'll need to replace the rims.
I wonder if this corrosion could have been reduced or avoided by using nitrogen? I live in the Northeast Ohio (Cleveland) area.
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Nitrogen-filled tires may slow down the corrosion a little. Most gas station and home compressors do not have driers so moisture goes into the tire along with the compressed air, causing some corrosion from the inside. Nicks, scrapes, and salt allow corrosion to start from the outside of the wheel. Alloy wheels have a clear coat, and if the clear coat is damaged, the wheels corrode more quickly and they become porous. IMO, sanding the wheel rim without applying another protective coating accelerates the corrosion process. A longer-lasting solution would be to re-clearcoat the wheel. I have the tire shop apply a generous coating of bead sealer on the entire inside of the wheel and rim before installing the tire. Washing any salt accumulation off as soon as possible, and applying clear nail polish to any nicks and scratches will also slow down corrosion.
--

Ray O
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"Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote in message

I fill my tires (not often enough) at gas stations when I can find one with an air pump. Moisture has never been a concern before since this is the first time I've become aware of the issue despite asking mechanics repeatedly why the rims corrode.
So, where should I get my tires filled?
And what should I do about the (moist) air that's already in them?
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I fill my tires with my home compressor, and the filter/drier on it is pretty worthless. When using air tools that use a lot of air, the tool's exhaust will be dripping water after a while. A quality drier system will cost as much or more than a home compressor, so I just make sure to use plenty of air tool oil in my air tools.
For me personally, it is a lot easier to get a shop to coat the inside of the wheel with bead sealer and fill my tires at home or a convenient air source than it is to have to take it to a shop that has nitrogen generators. The moisture-laden air in my tires theoretically will have greater variances in tire air pressure than dry air, but those variances are not enough to cause a problem.
--

Ray O
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How about using helium. It is lighter than air and will reduce the unsprung weight. It is also cheap.
"Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote in message

generators.
variances
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A really bad choice! Helium is the gas with the very smallest molecules -- even smaller than hydrogen, which has 2 atoms per molecule. Helium will leak out of almost any container faster than any other gas, due to its small molecular size.
Apart from that factor, it would be ideal (although very expensive) as it is inert. It's light weight is not a real bonus however, as even the weight of air in a tire is negligible, compared to the weight of the tire and wheel. -Jay-

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Uh, no such thing as a Helium molecule.

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wrote:

You're splittin hairs -- in this case the atom and the molecule are one and the same.

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