Am I being ripped off ?

No, Go and slap the service manager.

Explain it to him in a letter and ask for some satisfactory resolution before you take action.

I'm sure he'll buckle.

Andy

Yes, you are being ripped off. I'm not totally clear on what they mean by 'contact switch' - this could mean your ignition switch, or (more likely) the solenoid contacts.

Either way, it's clear that first time they replaced the starter motor it wasn't the cause of the fault. And why a new starter motor would need reconditioning after a month's use is anyone's guess.

Before paying the bill, ask them for a full breakdown of the work which was done, and the reasons for it, during the first and second visit. You are perfectly entitled to that. Then either take it to someone you trust, or post it here for comments.

Take it up with trading standards, you are being taken advantage of because your a woman.

Dave

I second this advice.

I suppose it is possible you could need the second chargeable job but it is extremely unlikely.

What sort of garage is it?

A main dealer ought to buckle easily if you talk to the Service Manager. If you get no joy there write to the Managing Director and copy the letter to the Service Manager.

If it is a smaller garage ask them about it. You could suggest they get a second opinion/justification or discuss the matter with a Vauxhall Main Dealer and then talk to the dealer yourself.

I wouldn't say that. I've known blokes who admit not knowing how to change a wheel. I reckon you could try it on with a good percentage of people nowadays and get away with it.

I would also say yes, you're being ripped off, but only maybe. It's important to know the background of the original replacement starter motor.

If you bought a new starter motor from the garage and it only lasted a month before it needed reconditioning, then the garage should go back to their supplier and insist on a free replacement, and the charges for their labour to swap it again should go to their supplier, not to you. I can't see how any reasonable business could argue this point. It isn't your fault they supplied a sub-standard part.

If you bought a used starter motor first time round, then it might only have had a short warranty and it could possibly require reconditioning now. However, the garage must have told you that when they first supplied it - if they didn't, then it's reasonable for you to assume that it was a new part and would have twelve months warranty as any new goods sold in the UK must have by law. This applies unless you agreed beforehand that they could supply you a used motor, and their original bill should have shown (a) that it was not new, and (b) how long the warranty would last. I would say that if their bill didn't show it was used and/or short warranty, then the

12-month warranty should be assumed.

Another caveat is if you sourced the starter motor yourself, and passed it to the garage to be fitted. In that case, if it goes wrong, I would say they're fully entitled to charge you for their time in diagnosing, removing and replacing the starter motor.

I must admit I don't know the Combo van, but even for a reconditioned starter motor the price seems a little steep, and I don't know how much the original bill was. Last year I bought a recon starter motor for my Vauxhall Firenza (relevance: same engine as the Bedford CF van with 2.3 OHC, quite a beefy starter motor) and the guy at Partco was quite apologetic when he had to charge me £110 plus VAT. Also I had a starter motor replaced at an Audi main agent on my old Audi coupe, and that also didn't cost me £230, even at Audi main dealer labour rates.

It would be interesting to hear how you go on with this.

I must stress I have no legal knowledge, but a reasonable experience in arguing with people in the past.

Mike.

My 2 cents on this one as an autoelectrician of some 12 years or so is that the most likely cause of failure of both of these starter motors is the ignition switch having stuck resulting in the motor being kept engaged with the engine after the key has been released. if the garage checked to ensure that the crank wire went dead as the key is released after finding the first one burnt out then there is little else they could have done. It wouldn't be common practice to just change the ignition switch on the off chance that it was faulty. They are perhaps guilty of not making you aware of the possible causes of the original failure and the possibility of it reoccurring, the fitter will in all likelyhood have not been aware of the cause of failure of the original unit, assessment of this is beyond the capabilities of the majority of fitters these days.

IMO you shouldn't have to pay at all. Get trading standards involved. =20

--=20 ________________________ Conor Turton conor snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com ICQ:31909763 ________________________

Anna Kettle wrote: Snips

Not knowing the full facts but: If they were ordered (by you) first time to find the starting fault, and it has re-occured, then they should really do it free of charge, or very cheaply.

If however you took the car in, and told them it needed a new starter motor first time (as you had been advised by the breakdown people), then no, they are not to blame for subsequent failure of other things. All they were ordered to do was fit a starter motor, and they did it. Sounds like 'C H' is right about this in his post above, as your 2nd starter has burnt out. Alan.

Twas Wed, 27 Aug 2003 06:32:38 GMT when snipped-for-privacy@no.spam.please.kettlenet.co.uk (Anna Kettle) put finger to keyboard producing:

I had a starter motor fail once, I took it off and took it to an auto-electrician (reccomended), I paid my money a few hours later (end of the day) and fitted it that night, 3 or 4 (I don't remember) days later it gave up again, I took it back and I picked up a recon that evening, and a set of those funny blue bulbs, both free gratis. and this was when those bulbs were only just appearing on new cars.

You paid for a fixed and working starter motor, that is not what you have. If you happen to be near Gateshead I'll try to direct you to the place I mentioned above, however I moved away in 1998 so no guarantees.

-- Regards. Mark.(AKA, Mr.Nice.) ___________________________________________________________ "To know the character of a man, give him anonymity" - Mr.Nice.

mr.niceATsofthome.nethttp://community.webshots.com/user/mrnice106___________________________________________________________

Really... last time i look statutary right where 28days, some things arnt designed to last longer,

time in diagnosing, removing

if its the 1.7D it sounds about right, the motor is expensive, and its an absolute PIG to get at!

Thanks for your comments everyone.

The jury is still out as to whether the charge is reasonable. It was a new, not a reconditioned starter motor. I wrote to the garage querying the second invoice (a local garage) and they replied suggesting that I speak to a main dealer. CH seems to come down in their favour.

The invoices have quite a lot of detail on them which I don't understand, so at the weekend when I'm home again and have the invoices by me, I'll post the detail and maybe someone will be able to shed light.

Anna

-- ~~ Anna Kettle, Suffolk, England |""""| ~ Pargeting, decorative and traditional / ^^ \// lime plasterwork |______|

07976 649862

I was under the impression any new goods sold here had to have at least 12 months warranty, however I've just looked on the dti site at the sale of goods and in fact there's no requirement for any warranty at all - it's at the manufacturers discretion and in addition to your statutory rights. Sorry for the confusion.

Mike

"Rich" mumbled:

And you'd be advised to mark 'em with something like a discrete dab of paint or nail varniish to make sure they don't substitute a known dodgy one.

Whats the betting they'll be a part ex? or sent back to be recon'd whatever the term is

Any item sold in UK has 14 days to be returned if customer is not happy with it. Most items are actually 28 days. THIS IS IF YOU CHANGE YOUR MIND!

However, if an item has "failed to last a reasonable amount of time" as seen by a "reasonable person" you have every right to a replacement with no extra cost or full refund. A guarantee is not worth the paper it is written on. This is said with 7 years retail experience.

Are you sure about that ?

I thought the retailer had no obligation to change an item, simply because you decided you didn't like it !

Once the sale is contracted, that's it !

Andy

No, it's not. If you change your mind you generally have no legal basis for a refund. There are exceptions, such as some financial-related products or certain forms of sale. Many retailers may give you a refund out of goodwill, though.

R.