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Astra DTI - ECU Problems.

Evening all,

I've got a bit of an issue with my trusty 2000 Astra 1.7 DTI, or, more precisely, an issue with the dealer that's fixing it!

I'll try and keep it short:

Car serviced a couple of weeks ago, at which time notified garage of a loss-of-power problem. ECU was showing faults on the air flow meter, brake light switch, and glow plugs - garage only had time to fix the AFM, so I got the car booked in for another visit (which was Monday).

I got a call on Monday afternoon, ECU still reporting the same 3 errors

- even after the AFM had been replaced at the same time as the service. I was told that it'd be replaced again, free of charge, and that they'd also replace the brake light switch and glow plugs. All in all, it'd be £270, and the work could all be finished before Monday night.

Phoned Monday evening, informed they'll be running it over night to make sure the problems are resolved - not a biggie, but it would have been nice to have been told! Phone them again next afternoon (5pm-ish), to be told that they're waiting for some details from Vx re the ECU - something about a security code they need to flash it - again, fine, but they could have let me know. I give them a call today, about 4-ish to see if all is well, and they inform me that they now think the ECU is faulty - they've put one in from another car, are certain that's fixed it, and they want to run it over night to make sure. Again, would have been nice to be told! A new ECU will cost you £570+VAT (exc. labour), thank you very much sir.

The *really* annoying thing is that when they told me the air flow meter was showing up as faulty for a second time, I actually said "couldn't it be the ECU that's faulty, since you've only just replaced the AFM?". Surely they should have then checked the output of the ECU after replacing it a second time?

This brings me to the crux of the matter - if I, who is as much of a mechanic as Elton John is a heterosexual, can determine that perhaps the ECU may be the cause of the problems, why can't a Vauxhall trained mechanic working at a Vauxhall dealership? As it stands, I'm going to be stuck with having already paid £185 for a AFM that didn't need replacing, and now pay for glow plugs and a brake light switch (that both could have been good), and now an ECU all with labour.

What are my options, folks?

I suppose I could flatly refuse to pay for any parts/labour associated with the air flow meter, brake light switch, and glow plugs - but that still leaves me the issue of lots of labour for them to diagnose the

*real* problem, when it shouldn't have been rocket science (or should it?). Then there's the ECU - I'm *certain* I'll be able to get it repaired/replaced somewhere else for a damn sight less than £570+labour+vat. When discussing this on the phone, I was told that they'd probably spent 20 hours on the car, but that they couldn't possibly charge that as it "wouldn't be fair".

I suppose I could also *really* throw my toys out of the pram, tell them to stick the old bits back on (which they undoubtedly don't have), and I'll pay them a nominal fee for diagnosing the problem - couple of hours labour, perhaps. The *big* thing that annoys me is the mis-diagnosis which will cost me dear in terms of labour and parts.

Any ideas?

Ta,

Lee

Reply to
Lee
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The dealer should have all of the old parts available, so you should be able to request them to replace the new parts with your old ones and just supply you with a new ECU. It is very unlikely that a faulty ECU would damage the mass air flow sensor, extrmely unlikely that it would cause damage to the glow plugs, and impossible for it to damage the brake light switch!! I haven't ever seen any problems with the 1.7DTi engine management system, although they were only out for a few months before I left the Vx dealer I worked at.

I think the reason for the mis-diagnosis is this:- When the Tech2 diagnostic tool is used to test the engine ECU, or any of the other vehicle systems for that matter, any faults are displayed with a code number and a brief description of the fault, such as P0100 Mas Air Flow Sensor Voltage Low. Some technicians will look at this and automatically assume that as Tech2 has told them that there is a fault code relating to the MAF sensor, then that must be what is at fault. In the majority of cases this is true, but occasionally the fault lies somewhere else in the system. They jump to conclusions rather than run through the complete diagnostic procedure which Vx provide on both the TIS CD and in manual form to each dealership. If this procedure was followed then the cause of the fault would be ascertained quite quickly without having to replace part unnecessarily. In my experience any time you get a list of more than two fault codes at the same time indicates a wiring or ECU problem rather than individual sensor faults.

HTH

Anthony Remove eight from email to reply.

Reply to
Anthony Britt

Thanks Anthony - as I said in my original post, even *I* thought it could have been the ECU, and I'm no mechanic by any stretch of the imagination.

I've asked them to give me a bell this morning, although, going on track record, they'll probably just fit a new ECU without telling me. I'm tempted to give them a bell to get the part # for the ECU and see if I can get it done cheaper elsewhere - not following the prescribed diagnostic procedure, even when there are signs that it may be required to identify the *real* fault, is just shabby. Let's face it, if the ECU had one fault, then you'd replace that part, you can't whinge about that, but when it has 3 faults, one of which is for a part replaced previously - you've got to wonder...!

Thanks again - I'll let you know how I get on.

L.

Reply to
Lee

Well, here I am again.

After five days of pi**ing around, I've been in to collect the car tonight. They've fitted a new ECU, at a cost of £571+labour+vat. Total bill is now £1003.40! Needless to say, I still have the courtesy car as I'm disputing the bill.

They're kindly going to knock off £137 for the air flow meter, in effect refunding what I paid for it at the service a couple of weeks back, since they've admitted it wasn't faulty - but they're insisting the glow plugs and brake light switch were.

I've told them I'm deeply unhappy about the cost - their response was that I shouldn't have told them to go ahead and fit the ECU. I'm trying to get the point across that when I spoke to the mechanic on the phone, I pointed out that I was deeply unhappy with the work/diagnosis that had taken place, and that I had a quote for £270 (albeit a verbal one) to fix the problem the car went in to have fixed - the mechanic simply said that the ECU needed replacing and that I'd have to speak with the manager about the price when I picked the car up. Apparently, doing

*exactly* what the garage ask you to do just isn't good enough...

So.. a bill for £1003, minus £137. They're insisting that the glow plugs and brake light switch needed replacing, despite my protestations that they were only replaced as a result of fault codes from a faulty ECU. They're refusing to admit that they mis-diagnosed the problem, and that I have to pay the £866. Manager has offered to take 10% off that figure, but I've told them I'm still not happy, as the misdiagnosis is their problem, and if they weren't convinced that replacing the three parts showing faults would fix the problem, they should have investigated further until they knew what would fix it before giving a quote - or at least have informed me that more work/investigation would/might be required, none of which happened. They're saying that they had to do that work, and needed to do *further* diagnosis work.

I made the point about how the problem could well have shown up much quicker if they'd run the full set of diagnostic tests - they said that they have no choice *but* to run the full set of tests, as the tech2 stuff does it automatically, and that whoever informed me of that the diagnostics could be ignored/skipped the was wrong - although I think I know who I'm inclined to believe!

I've also been in touch with trading standards, who have said that they're convinced I'm in the right, have given me a sample letter I can use quoting Supply of Goods and Services Act 1984 ("reasonable skill"/"reasonable time" arguments), and that I should tell them I'm making a claim under the Consumer Credit Act 1974, too. Garage manager said that he's been in the business all his life, and has *absolutely no doubt* that they are covered legally. I'm not sure who's right, but think I'll investigate further.

He's spending the evening/morning seeing what he can "trim" off the bill, but I have told him that if it's not significantly closer to the £270, I'll be seeking a resolution using other means.

Any thoughts, folks? (and Anthony in particular, pleeeease!).

Lee

Reply to
Lee

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