cabin/pollen filters

Where I come from, we call my language "English"

It seems it can't help you, that's for sure...

I can assure you my statement had nothing to do with religion! I've been an active atheist for over 50 years. IMHO, common sense and religion are about as far apart as it is possible to get.

I haven't a clue what you mean WRT advertising...

What about the fact that the archives show a large number of people whose vehicles had the same symptoms, and for whom the same solution worked? And none I can remember for whom it didn't?

"In even moderately humid conditions..."

This is usenet, not some scientific academy!

Way back up there ^^^^^ you asked someone to explain why if you run A/C regularly, you don't get the nasty smells. I've explained, as someone who has experienced this, how I prevented it.

If you need scientific explanations for the phenomenon, why are you asking here, in a NG about car maintenance?

Insufficient information in both cases.

Did the vehicles have A/C? Was the A/c used? Was the A/C switched off before journey's end? What sort of smell were you asking about? What were the usage patterns of the vehicles before you got them?

Chris

I wasn't asking about maintenance. You made a statement about some cause and effect without providing any basis for the connection. This is what I asked you to do.

BTW, it isn't necessary to be religious to use the style of religion - making statements lacking in substance or reason.

Lets remind you what you stated. [Smell] "has nothing to do with mileage, or the length of journeys, and everything to do with the amount of time the vehicle is left unused between journeys".

Yes, they had/have A/C and according to your original statement I have given you all the information you require. Now you're asking for all sorts of conditions.

So, we find your statement is hopelessly incomplete. At least, now we know what's missing it's possible to work out what kind of (very limited) circumstances you were thinking of.

So I repeat - why are you asking in a *MAINTENANCE* NG?

I didn't directly make a statement. You asked another poster (Pete M) to explain why running the A/C regularly would help prevent the smell. Perhaps sensibly, he didn't answer, so I sought to enlighten you.

The cause: allowing water to condense on the A/C evaporator.

The effect: bacterial growth making the A/C smell.

The basis for the connection: common sense, personal experience, plus the experience of others reported here and elsewhere.

If that's not "scientific" enough for you, I repeat< you're asking in the wrong place.

The statement I have made regarding the likely cause of smelly A/C is not lacking in substance - it exists. In what way is it lacking in reason?

You've challenged my statement as lacking in scientific proof; this isn't a science NG, and I'm not a scientist. Within those parameters, I consider what I said, (as supported by many others in the past) to be completely reasonable.

As I'm not your mythical scientist, when I made my "original statement" I quite reasonably made the assumptions that any sensible person would when trying to explain to you what may cause A/C smells. (Boy, do I wish I hadn't tried to be so helpful!).

No, there's only you and me here; where are the mythical "we"?

My answer to your question would be complete enough for any normal person to understand in the context in which it was asked.

So the circumstance in which a car is used for short trips with the A/C on, and then left for longer periods without use, is a "very limited circumstance"? I don't think so; it's certainly how my car is currently used, and I think my usage pattern is increasingly common.

Chris

Basically, I was going through this NG and I responded to stuff already written. I was not asking for advice - I asked for more background to advice (though it was couched more as an instruction than advice) already given.

You mean, "maintenance" is supposed to be solely about how to draw air through the teeth and doing a spanner job?

Or perhaps he just offered a soundbite and has no background..

...which didn't even touch on PeteM's claim. Instead you gave yet another soundbite which you can't back up. Neither of you have added the slightest thing towards helping to control aircon smells.

"DavidR" wrote

I have just noticed a thread called "brake fluid change". There you managed to provide an answer to the question. You could have stopped there but you then went on to give a reasonable explanation for your opinion.

Pity it's been such a struggle in this neck of the woods.

As ever, things need to be considered in context.

One could probably find a dozen different definitions of "maintenance". However, in the context of this NG, it's contained within the NG charter, which makes no mention of the expectation of a scientific explanation.

I really think that you don't properly understand usenet.

You seem to be regarding others here as some sort of paid expert service.

Often, if one has a problem that can't be solved, a "soundbite" (a horrible phrase BTW), might be all that's needed to send you in a different track.

I have a fair bit of free time; I choose to spend some of it on usenet, and some on web forums, trying to help others. Sometimes, I am able to help directly, Sometimes, I can only comment. In both cases, I try to help.

What are you contributing here?

Which, "In even moderately humid conditions, water will condense on the evaporator. (That's why you see puddles under cars with A/C.) If the system is only used infrequently, for short periods of time, the condensed water doesn't dry out and encourages bacterial growth on the outside of the evaporator. This is what smells. It actually makes perfect sense, and IME, does happen."

and:

"The reason being that it gives the evaporator a chance to dry out before you switch off."

If you think that had not added the slightest thing towards the problem, that's up to you.

It's certainly added more to helping understand a solution than any single thing you have contributed...

Chris

"Chris Whelan" wrote

Yes, it is known an aircon exchanger condenses out water from humid air, puddles appear under parked cars and that smelly things grow in damp conditions.

But what has it got to do with?:-

(smells have) // nothing to do with mileage, or the length of journeys, and everything to do with the amount of time the vehicle is left unused between journeys.//

So far that I can gather, it seems that if the system is switched off wet it never dries out and as a result smelly stuff grows unchecked. Then, when the system is running again (for however short a time), the smelly stuff is killed off. If that is what you mean I have holes to pick. If it isn't, what did you mean?

I have not been able to contribute for the simple reason that I am asking you to explain a statement you provided and until you provide something to bite on it remains impossible to enter into a dialogue. Please give reasoning or realise that you pressed send before engaging brain. Then we can cease this bun fight.

When I first read what you wrote I genuinely thought "Oh, this chap seems pretty positive about it, what else can he offer?". Well, let's just say my initial optimism has been shown to be misplaced.

No, the problem is that once the bacterial growth has happened, it

Funny, you seem to be managing that quite well...

It's inevitable in such a long, pointless thread that one party will eventually degenerate into abuse. This is always the one loosing the argument.

Looks like you blinked first...

I proffered what I, and I believe others, would see as a perfectly plausible explanation for the phenomenon. I did this based on personal experience, on the experience of others from the internet, and on a conversation with someone in the trade. What more was needed? What you have done is said that I haven't provided sufficient proof. So what? If that's a problem to you, why not come up with an alternative, together with some proof, instead of just repeating yourself?

Chris

Hey, are we near the end of the beginning?

You say this. It is the thing you are having trouble explaining.

What is happening when the car is not in use? Does stuff grow even after the system has dried out? Discount external humid or damp conditions here - if it's as bad as that the whole car will be riddled.

Why does using of car discourage growth? Just concentrate on normal use, not special attempts to blast air through. After all, it is normal use that causes the aircon to get wet in the first place.

No, you have only said the smelly stuff forms because aircon get damp. Unfortunately, saying why it forms doesn't help in a discussion about how to control it.

I would suggest "control" means keeping it dry as much as possible. Well, if the car is not used it will eventually dry out, whereas regular use will top up the damp after each journey. Won't it?

Lets take your scenario. Even if drying out had a half life of 7 days, the car doing a single journey in a week must harbour less damp on average than the car used once a day. Won't it?

The car world is full of folklore. Advice, instructions or edicts are often given that have no solid basis. Or it can also be the case that there is a sound basis, technically, but the commonly reported version is somewhat removed from the true version. It is useful to be able to identify all these.

What am I repeating, apart from asking you for an explanation? I am just an empty vessel waiting to be filled.