Do they do it just to annoy?

Sorry sir, we have to trailer it to the garage to put it on the computer.

The Beemer terminal was (is?) a very civilised idea.

A YouTube video on battery replacement showed a flap that lifts up over the positive terminal to give access. Did you miss this or did the car really not have a liftable flap?

Tim

Too small an opening for my jump start pack leads. As I said they have chunky insulation over their entire outside. Which has never been an issue on any other car.

So it can be jump started?

There are some modern cars that claim they can't be jump started. As a catch 22 they may have to be re-coded by a dealer if the battery is removed for off vehicle charging.

Then there's the problem of silver chloride batteries (Ford?), not to be confused with "silver tec". They have a higher voltage than regular lead acid so can produce over voltage which frys a lead acid cars electronics. Or the silver chloride system gets dragged down to the lead acid voltage and when the alternator runs it feeds excessive current though the regulator in an attempt to bring the voltage up, killing the alternator.

Think you'll find that is complete marketing bollox. ;-)

If it's "complete marketing bollox" I wonder why Yuasa do *not* say in plain words that cars specifying silver calcium do not have different charging voltages, and AgCa batteries do not last longer in *them* on average than conventional lead batteries would. It struck me as carefully drafted to say in effect "you can use our batteries" without saying anything factually inaccurate (and hence actionable).

They say one of their replacement batteries will have a life as least as good as a genuine Ford spare...

The life of any lead acid is very dependant on use. Let it go flat, and its life will be reduced. So very difficult to give any warranty on how long it should last. Other than the nominal 3 years or whatever.

If these vehicles run at a different voltage, I take it they have special bulbs and so on?

Last time I looked the UN/ECE regs still just specified bulbs for a nominal 12V for testing at 13.2V so an awful lot of cars run them at over-voltage. There's nothing special for our Focus and Fiesta - though I do tend to spend the often trivial extra amount for what claim to be bulbs better able to withstand over-voltage.

From your link to Yuasa on Ford's silver calcium, battery.

"Charge Voltage tolerance increased from 14.4V to 14.8V"

0.4V increase in charging system voltage from 14.4V to 14.8V isn't going to make much difference to a filament bulb.

But it could make a difference to electronically regulated systems. eg

14.4V regulated to 12V means it has to drop 2.4V, with 14.8V it's dropping 2.8V a 16.6% increase in power dissipated in the voltage regulator.

Car voltage regs tend to be rated to 40v. Rather higher than 'ordinary' ones.

3% increase will make a 10% increase in light output and probably reduce it's life by 30%.

I've not seen anyone doing that for *years*. ;-)

Given the cost of a car and it's general use and upkeep, why don't all people that own cars also own a Lithium jump start packs (and a foot pump, jump leads etc) even if they don't use them themselves? It's like buying a dinghy and not getting some buoyancy aids and a bailer?

Ok, I 'don't mind' lending a good neighbour a foot pump, battery charger or jump leads (and more often than not, doing the job myself), it's just when they come and ask to borrow it again a few days later ... what am I, the local tool loan club?

I am a fond believer of the old 'Never a lender or borrower be' (not the same as hiring something) and by lending stuff 'You have everything to lose and nothing to gain' by doing so (as you find out when they give you back something that's broken and either don't say so or offer to replace / repair it).

However, there are a select group of like minded people I will / do - lend / borrow with because we understand the deal ... you break / damage / lose it you replace it.

I have this with a good neighbour and, because I needed to do it quickly and didn't think I would need to, I borrowed his motorcycle chain link splitter (the chain had a split link so I shouldn't have needed it) and when he gave it to me it was a bit rusty and stiff. So I've used it, cleaned, de-rusted and lubed it for him. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

What would be neat is a lithium pack integrated into the car. The car keeps it topped up and makes sure it's in good condition. Then all you need to do is pop the bonnet and pull the emergency start handle, or press a button behind a cover on the dash.

You could also move to using a lithium battery instead of a lead acid - they're gradually approaching cost parity. Then there's plenty of capacity for starting - you'd probably want to arrange the charge management so it always keeps some in reserve to start the car.

Theo

Eh? Last time I looked, an equivalent capacity one was about 6 times the price. Of course a smaller Li-ion could supply the required starting current - but that isn't going to help with battery life when the car ain't used. Which is marginal already with many.

At car-builder quantities, lithium ion are $150/kWh. Lead acid is $100-200. Obviously 'it depends' in lots of ways, but it's starting to get there. Then, once you have a lithium ion it starts making sense to make it hybrid as well.

Theo

Typical car battery is around 3/4 kwh (60 Ah).

Typical hybrid 4-6 kwh. So you have just added £450 - £750 to the cost of the car before you install the motor/gen on the trans and the controller. By the time it's rolling off the showroom floor its £5000 extra.

Can you explain why you can't buy a Li-ion 70 amp hour replacement for anywhere near the same price as a lead acid, then?

If they are now near the same price as lead acid, do any makers of IC engined cars now fit them as standard - other than some exotics?

Because they aren't sold in the GWh quantities that car builders are producing lithium ion.

Plus the car is set up to charge lead acid, so you need conversion electronics to adapt to a lithium charge profile. Adding those electronics might cost more than the price of the lithium cells (at car-builder not Maplin prices).

Theo