Faulty Brakes after work done at garage

Hello.

Chalk it up to experience, find a better garage or learn something about mechanics and DIY in future. Stop all this bollocks about crutches and Liverpool airport and the obvious grubbing around for compo get on with life!

Julian.

It's far too much of a coincidence that the cylinders should fail, on both side, so soon after the shoes were changed. However, proving that the original garage cocked up would be a long and potentially expensive process.

So in your shoes I would write to the original garage with a simple statement of what happened and when, enclosing the bill from the second garage, and asking them to pay it. I would also ask, them, in view of the obvious safety implications, to explain what steps they are taking to make sure that nothing like this happens again.

If they paid me anything I would be pleased. If they didn't, I would give up. It's not worth a fight, and even if they don't pay the person responsible there will probably get a bollocking anyway.

Ian

Not sure what the RAC man means by that comment, about the only think that might have caused such damage is if the mechanic removed the pistons for inspection (or accidentally), the only other possibility is that they left the brake shoes adjustment 'long' but that would have resulted in the foot pedal travelling a long way before the brakes started to bite and even then it would not have caused any problem on it's own as there would have had to have been undetecable wear within the brake cylinders.

If the cylinders are not leaking or seized then there is little else that can be done even if they are inspected - which would normally done as you suggest.

Whilst trying not to down play the problems you mention it's also true that you could have broken down in many other - unrelated - ways too, a simple tyre puncher could cause the same sorts of problems should you find that you couldn't change the wheel for some reason, or worse still someone else could have collided with your car, I think you have to accept that driving any distance increases the risks of *something* happening...

I would have a claim [1], colleted, conversation about what happened with the garage, and see what they have to say, I would certainly not try positioning blame - at least to start with.

[1] leaving out all the irrelevances you have posted here about great 'what ifs'

Hmm, isn't that being a bit victim, witness, judge and jury?! The fact remains, as I've tried to outline in my original reply, that the original garage might not have done anything wrong - and seeing that that the OP seems to have asked "Can you replace the rear brake shoes on my car please" rather than 'My cars rear brakes don't seem to be working very well and are making a noise, can you look at them and give me a quote'...

The brake warning light would come on well before enough fluid leaked out to cause any noticeable braking loss, that would be the time to stop and have a look round. Even after complete rear fluid loss you would still have the front brakes working (with extra pedal travel)

It would be normal practice to check for fluid leaks when fitting new shoes, BUT there may have been no evidence when the shoes were fitted ! Retracting the pistons may have actually caused the seals to leak, this could be very difficult to spot without using the vehicle for a while and having another look.

In my experience I have found that non regular customers would be wary of being told that they need cylinders as well as shoes. (think of the kwik-fit stories, 'I would like an exhaust, well, you need four shocks and the tracking done as well)

In future have yearly services that will notice things like very worn brake shoes before they are completely worn away.

Additionally, if the fluid is replaced as per manufacturers service intervals (every two years on that car) it is less likely that the cylinders will fail.

I don't think you have any legal claim against the first garage, but there is nothing to lose by talking to them about it.

Mrcheerful

You're suggesting that you wouldn't have looked at the cylinders whilst you had the drums off?

From a purely legal perspective the garage hasnt done anything wrong they have changed the brakshoes as per agreement with the customer , he never asked for the cylinders to be inspected .

Decent garages are damned if they do and damned if they dont these days

And just to add the other factor in all this, even if they did inspect the cylinders the imminent failure might still not have been obvious, how does one detect worn bores and seals without scraping the cylinders anyway, the inspection can only be of an external visual nature (that is, pulling back the outer duct seals).

...and *at the time* they quite possibly were, catstophic faliure of wheel cylinders can be sudden.

"Jerry" wrote in news:ghivhg$69v$ snipped-for-privacy@news.motzarella.org:

I've just had a long, civilised chat with the garage owner about how brakes work...

Finally he came to the conclusion that I was the victim of a one in a million chance that both cylinders should happen to suffer a failure within 2 days of the shoes being replaced.

However, as a goodwill gesture he offered to pay half the cost of the new cylinders, which seemed very reasonable to me. I can give it to our friends in Leeds to pay for their petrol and inconvenience.

At the back of my mind is the thought that one of his employees failed to check the seals, but I am relieved that the matter is over.

One thing I have thought about since then is this:

Is it possible that the actual cylinders might have corroded on the inside and the slightly thicker shoes have pushed the pistons back more than the old shoes so that the inner seals were lined up with a part of the cylinder that didn't make a fluid tight seal? This would not be detectable with the shoes off, would it? Although I have changed the brake fluid, I cannot vouch for the servicing in the first 9 or 10 years of the car's life. Would old brake fluid absorb enough water to cause corrosion in the cylinders?

Thanks again for all the advice, David

Good result then.

Mr Cheerful did suggest this yesterday.

No

Very much so, yes.

Chris

It is entirely possible, In fact that is the most likely explanation. Back brakes do very little work compared to the fronts, and if the car has been driven fairly gently then the rear shoes may not have been replaced for years, so the inner part of the cylinder will not have seen the seals in all that time, and could quite easily have been rusty. There are still many motorists out there (the majority I would say) who don't regard changing the brake fluid as part of maintenance, so water, and therefore rust, down there would be quite possible.

I had a very old car with nothing working. I examined the master cylinder and there was rust along the bottom of the barrel where water had been lying over the years.

Rob Graham

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold. I remember David Linley saying something like:

It's not unknown for brake cylinders to leak after they've been disturbed by shoe replacement. The rubbers get pushed past their normal range of travel and can get damaged, however an experienced mechanic can avoid this and can spot the signs of cylinder weepage that point to them needing replaced - something I'll bet wasn't spotted or ignored in your case. There's not a lot you can do, except kick up a bit of a fuss with the garage and put them right about it. They might cough up or refund something, but it won't be much, I suspect. The problem is, really, that garages don't have crystal balls and who knows when brake cylinder rubbers will leak - next week, next month, next year? It's just one of those things and you can't expect the garage to bear the burden of unpredictability of working on random s**te old cars that turn up with all sorts of things about to go wrong with them.