Focus or Civic for £3,000?

Paul Giverin ( snipped-for-privacy@giverin.co.uk) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying :

Mmmm. A colleague has had his for quite a few years (S-reg 1.8 Ghia estate) and reckons that it's Really Not All That.

;-)

SteveH ( snipped-for-privacy@italiancar.co.uk) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying :

What IS the world coming to when Cits and Alfas are being held up as "How to make cars NOT rust"...?

Bizarre.

My R-plate Passat was more rusty than the Alfa, ffs.

Even my old H-plate 33 had only rusted a bit under the rear hatch rubber. The rest was rot-free. Katie's H-plate 33 had no visible corrosion on it anywhere.

That's because lots of companies had "Buy British" policies without realising that the majority of Fords were built elsewhere.

Says the man with the company Passat - duller than a Mondeo, less reliable than a Mondeo - more expensive to fix than a Mondeo - less of a drivers car than a Mondeo - uglier than a Mondeo - more common than a Mondeo - smaller inside and less well built than Mondeo and all because it's got a "prestige badge" and rubber paint on the indicator stalk.

I did 350 miles in a Mk1 Mondeo 1.8 Ghia saloon yesterday, they were enjoyable. Some quick A roads and a lot of motorway. At no point did I think "I'd rather be driving a Passat".

There is absolutely no comparison to be made between a MkIII Mondeo and a B6 Passat. The B6 is simply leagues ahead. And yes, I've done a few days in a Mondeo - it was hugely disappointing in Zetec trim. Slower, less feedback from the steering / clutch / brakes / throttle, and the build quality would have embarrased Fiat in the 1980s. The C-Max I got after refusing another Mondeo was even worse.

I'll give Ford the edge on reliability, 'cos we've had a few issues with the B6 fleet (only the 2.0TDI, not the 1.9s, thoough) - but I find they do drink oil a bit, so I'm guessing those who've had problems haven't been checking it between services - bad idea when the interval is averaging out at 25k miles.

I'm not saying you're wrong, Tim, because I simply don't know for sure either way, but Parker's has this to say:

"CL and LX models are more softly sprung and roll around a bit even in gentle corners. Zetec and Ghia models are much more composed. 2.0 ST170 has a harsher ride."

The Ford brochure should be the more reliable source of course, but the Focus has undergone revisions since 1999. I don't know if the suspension was uprated in later models, but it's possible.

Morse

I've also driven a B6 Passat, sludgier and mushier than my 200k Audi - never mind a Mk3 Mondeo.

In all honesty, I *really* don't know why you chose the Passat. Even if I shared your virulent hatrid of Fords I'd have picked a Mondeo over something as sludgy as the Passat to drive.

I had one of the first B5? Passats for a while back in '98. TDi Sport spec one, I remember thinking "oooh, this is nice" when I first got in it, and being impressed by the economy, the dash lighting and the stereo (Gamma) but after a few days I remember thinking "Oh, I'd be so pissed off if I'd bought this thing".

When the Mondeo Mk3 came out it slaughtered the Passat as a drivers car, and judging by my experience of the B6 it still does.

VWs have always drank oil. Mk2 Golf GTis used to drink a litre every 600 miles for the first 10k miles religiously.

Maybe, but I can't recall seeing a really tatty one- they are solid cars and as long as one keeps an eye on their known trouble spots- around door mirrors, tailgate/boot around the chrome insert, and the door skin sealant, they are easy to keep looking tidy. It's unfortunate that they have these issues but there's a lot less goes wrong with them than some other cars.

Exactly- there's a lot of high mileage older Focuses on the road and they still tend to look quite good IMO. If owners know what to keep an eye out for then repairs are cheap. My Focus had the boot problem fixed for about £100 and it's like new. Leave it too long of course and things start to get expensive.

Morse

If someone said the same about an Alfa / Fiat / Citroen etc. then it would be put down to 's**te French / Italian build quality'.... but Ford get away with this stuff in the eyes of the general public all the time.

That's because on a Ford it's the only issue in 8 or 9 years of ownership as opposed to on an Alfa / Fiat / Citroen it'd be the only issue in the last

I love Alfas but if something unimportant breaks you tend to just ignore it because it'll be too much hassle getting it fixed. On something like a Focus you tell people that something went wrong because it's unusual.

"Pete M" wrote in message news:f03b7k$qda$ snipped-for-privacy@registered.motzarella.org...

I have the saloon, in metallic gold . It was my mother's and she virtually gave it to me when she got her new Focus 2 TDCi so I can't complain! I really love the hatches though- I think they're one of the best looking family cars on the road. The Focus 2 isn't as nice IMHO.

Heheh! Gold Focus = beige velour upholstery. Add to that white Persian and white Ragdoll cats and you can probably imagine what it looks like now. Getting the fur off the seats is like trying to sweep up leaves in a gale. I hate velour, I'd far rather have leather but beggars can't be choosers!

Morse

SteveH wrote: || Ivan wrote: || ||||| I'd personally look at the Ghia and Zetec trim levels. AIUI both ||||| have stiffer suspension than the lower end models and handle very ||||| well indeed. ||||| ||| Driving home in my focus TDCI yesterday I couldn't help noticing ||| just how many Fords there are on the road nowadays, they seemed to ||| be almost every other car I saw. || || Erm, it's been like that for a long, long time. || || Think back to the 80s - every other car was a Fiesta, Escort or || Sierra with a lot of Granadas around, too. || || Tells me that people will buy any old s*it because their father || always bought Ford, so therefore they buy Ford, too. || || There can be no other explanation for people wanting to drive the || same dull as ditchwater heaps of s*it as everyone else on the roads. || --

No doubt that if money wasn't a consideration then many drivers, including myself, would be driving something a little more exotic than the average Ford.

However in their favour It has to be said that even the very hard to please Clarkson waxed lyrical about how utterly reliable one of his cars (an early Ford focus) has been in one of his newspaper columns (which I can't be arsed to google for at this time and night).

I was in the domestic electronics service industry for many decades and saw the total decimation of the British television manufacturing industry, simply because they insisted on producing televisions which required several repairs a year, whilst the Japanese were busily importing receivers which didn't require the back cover to be removed for any kind of repair or service, in many instances for 10 years or more!

|| SteveH 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa || Romeo'

See, you're one of the few people who actually say that. The steering is, like most elecrical systems, a bit odd, but I wouldn't say it's sludgy and mushy.

Because a TDI140 SE is infinitely better than a TDCI115 LX?

I never had that feeling about my B5. It was a bit roly-poly, but it gripped well enough and never went wrong. Even at 170k miles.

Bloody nice car, that.

All the failures appear to be dead turbos, which definitely points the finger at people not checking oil levels.

You say, "The boot problem".

I have missed this. What boot problem?

Drive boot? Luggage boot?

I would imagine Morse was referring to problems with rust on the tailgate. This can happen in two places.

On early cars, the rear screen was fitted slightly too low in the aperture. If the rear wiper is often used with the screen dry, the resultant slight movement of the screen can cause it to rub the paint at the lower centre. This is also a point where water collects, and rust can form here.

On Ghia models, the tailgate trim is metal, rather than the plastic used on others. The ends of this can damage the paint, and again can cause rust.

Although these problems have been reported here, and Ford will generally cough up for a respray on cars under warranty, I've looked at lots of Focuses and have yet to see one with either problem.

On a car at the sort of budget you are proposing, the problem would either be really obvious or would have been fixed.

Chris

Ultra reliable if you avoid the 1.8 lean burn unit. Ask any cab firm who've run them if they are reliable!

Tim..

Oh dear.