How important is FSH?

Also sprach Tony :-

Not even slightly. Pay what you think it's worth. At that age it'll probably be in need of the cam belt doing - so ask. If it's been done ask for a receipt - if they ain't got one adjust the price accordingly.

AFAIC not important with a car that price just check it over thoroughly, you can usually tell if it's been well looked after or abused

LJ

As others have said. Not very. You only have to look at the 'Which' reports on garage servicing to see how badly most servicing is carried out even on newer cars. Main dealers, if anything, worse than independants. Nothing to stop you using the lack of one as a bargaining point though.:-) Mike.

I would want to know that it had been regularly serviced (esp oil changes) and that the mileage was genuine (unless already starship high) if the seller can reassure you on these points (old MOT's or receipts for oil, filters etc) then I wouldn't worry about a formal service history at this price level. It may make it easier to sell though. It doesn't have to be a main dealer SH. In fact I've described cars that I've serviced myself as having FSH because I've serviced them in accordance with the recommendations, written down everything I've done to them and kept all the receipts.

Why not even slightly? No evidence of oil changes over large number of miles? These cars on the whole have around 100k on the clock.Unless there is paper evidence how do you know when the oil has been changed? There are examples with FSH or even full dealer SH around but are not necessarily local or in the colour/spec you want. (Auto trader site good for searching). The models I have been looking at have chains not cam belts. 5 or 6 yr old is not that old really?

Yes its not the FSH that I am so interested in, but lack of evidence of any oil changes for 30,000 miles etc that concerns me. I suppose this is quite common, these 5/6 yr old cars tend to have has 2 owners, the first owner has got the service history main dealer up to a few years old (3 yr warranty from new), but after that the service history stops with the 2nd owner. So I find the last evidence of a service was

Also sprach Tony :-

OK, very slightly then. But very little.

Although at this age/price range general condition is more important, you'll find that some cars in do still have documented histories and careful owners who keep every bill. It's worth seeking them out if you can.

Also sprach "Steve Knight" :-

We bought a Maestro some years ago which had a complete and very detailed service history - including the fitting of a Broquet "Fuel catalyst". Which explained why we got the car so very cheaply - it was only firing on three cylinders 'cos the valves had receded after the old bloke who owned it ran in on UL with no additives.

Just 'cos it's got a full history doesn't mean it's any good.

I would want to be seeing bills / invoices / documents of work done, not necessarily a stamped up service book. Any Tom or Richard can wield a stamp; doesnt mean the car has been maintaned though.. Invoices do.

Tim..

In message , Guy King writes

It does to me. I won't part with £2-3k without seeing evidence of regular oil changes. It's a buyers market and there are plenty of cars out there which do meet this condition.

Also sprach Paul Giverin :-

I suppose so. I've never spent anything like that much on a car so I'm less bothered.

You are assuming the dealer actually services the car properly.

When I used to service cars I change the air filter and plugs every 6000 miles regardless of what the manufacturers were claiming. Same witht he oil. It wasnt that expensive to bother not doing it but dealers cut corners and dont change things as often as they should.

Therefore, I know that the scenic I sold last week (dealer FSH) was in much worse shape than the one i sold 2 years ago which I had done all the servicing on since (I bought it at 1 year old).

I sold a car to a dealer last week and he went a bit doolally about there not being a service book, when had I supplied all the receipts for all the services with all the associated checklists. Apparently buyers still want a stamped book, even if thats much easier to fake than all the receipts and print outs.

No, but you've got a much better chance of it being good.

If you buy a Maestro, any Maestro, you're buying a pile of sh*t - end of story.

Why is that a problem? I stick to oil changes religiously but I either DIY them or take them to Kwik-Fit/National Tyres..neither of which puts a stamp in the book. THats the case with alot of cars.

Dealers don't (at least when I worked for one year ago) service cars properly. I service mine myself. Oil, plugs, new filters every 6000 miles without fail. I also get it up on my friend hyraulic lift, check all brakes tyres and suspension bits. Anything that needs replacing gets replaced. By me. I'm reasonably confident I do a better job that a trainee at a main dealer, but even though I keep all parts and service item receipts, the car is worth less cos I can't stamp the book. Daft really, but I can sort of see why people aren't keen to buy without.

When I buy a car, if it's not falling in bits, runs and drives straight and doesn't overheat when left ticking over for ages, I'll generally buy it if it's something I want, then give it a damn good going over afterwards.

Last car I bought was a Xantia. The ABS didn't work, so I talked him down £250. Cost me a tenner for a s/h ABS sensor and 1/2 hour to fit.

mike

It's quite possible the oil hasn't been changed, but this would be reasonably obvious on the dipstick:

Black sludge a bit below the "low" mark - probably not been changed. Fresh oil nicely up to "max" mark - probably not been changed (until they came to try and sell it.)

Or worn but ok oil, which is hard to judge when you don't know what you're looking at but which is easy enough when you've seen all sorts to compare. TBH the signs of neglect are usually fairly clear and missing some oil changes probably doesn't do all that much harm on a modern car with modern oils.

In practice, many engines can make gigantic mileage and the rest of the car won't still be there, due to rust, electronic failures, etc. So neglect merely means when it is a 20 year old, it might need one of the perfectly good lower mileage engines which by then will be sitting in breakers yards in rusted or faulty shells. Realistically, at some point no cars will reach a decade once the government decides they have to have their airbags replaced at that age to pass the MoT - this will write them off.

Taxi with a half million mile target, probably does need to experience regular oil and filter changes. Daily driver, not nearly so convinced.

Also sprach "Steve Knight" :-

You've not had one then?