OT Audi A4 for a grand - possible?

fit a towbar

Guy King ( snipped-for-privacy@zetnet.co.uk) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying :

There's always the Toerag? (Or the LT...)

I reckon the R class will be a depreciation shock, in Mercedes terms, after all anyone who wants something that oddball can afford it new. That'll be the big estate car bargain in 5 yrs time.

Nah, they won't be proper cheap until 5-10 years old. Cheapest W12 (the only one to have IMHO, and that's even including the V10 TDI) on Autotrader when I looked last week was an 03 plater at £28k. 5 years old they'll still be £10-15k. I wouldn't call something like that a bargain until it's down to under £5k.

AstraVanMan ( snipped-for-privacy@Whataloadofforeskinbollocks.co.uk) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying :

Two years ago, that was a £68-73k car. BEFORE options. (Four seats cost more than five...).

So, in two years, it's dropped somewhere around 60% of it's value.

Or, to look at it another way, over twenty grand per year.

Tim S Kemp ( snipped-for-privacy@timkemp.karoo.co.uk) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying :

And... right on cue... in today's batch of industry press releases...

'Vision R 63 AMG': World premiere at the 61st Frankfurt Motor Show Presentation of a dynamic, near-series interpretation of the Mercedes- Benz R-Class

• Sporting interpretation of the Grand Sports Tourer
• Powered by an all-new 6.3-litre AMG V8 engine
• Output rated at 510 hp and 630 Nm
• Luxury, performance and four-wheel drive for six occupants

At the 61st Frankfurt Motor Show (IAA), Mercedes-AMG is presenting the 'Vision R 63 AMG', a particularly dynamic, near-series interpretation of the new Mercedes-Benz R-Class, the Grand Sports Tourer. Powered by the all-new, completely independently developed AMG 6.3-litre V8 engine with an output of 510 hp and a maximum torque of 630 Nm, the 'Vision R 63 AMG' represents an unprecedented combination of unique, sporty driving pleasure, outstanding spaciousness and top-class comfort for up to six occupants.

Alongside the series-production version of the new Mercedes-Benz R- Class, whose short wheelbase variant is celebrating its world premiere at the show, the 'Vision R 63 AMG' with a long wheelbase, an avant-garde design and an extravagantly styled interior, will appear in the role of a sporty and dynamic trendsetter. This Mercedes-AMG interpretation of the Grand Sports Tourer confirms its exceptional position in the automotive market right from the very first glance. Externally, numerous details distinguish the muscular showcar from the series-production R- Class. The bodywork of the 'Vision R 63 AMG' is resplendent in 'dark titanium grey', whilst the trim is in matt titanium grey.

Newly designed front and rear aprons in the typical AMG look, bi-xenon headlamps with titanium-coated reflectors and the two twin chromed tailpipes of the AMG sports exhaust system convey unmistakable dynamism. Massive, matt titanium-painted 21-inch AMG light-alloy wheels in a 5- spoke design with 265/40 R 21 wide-base tyres all-round lend a striking effect to the side view of the almost 5.20-metre long Grand Sports Tourer. Behind the spokes of the AMG light-alloy wheels it is possible to discern the generously dimensioned AMG high-performance braking system, which ensures extremely short braking distances.

Sports-car performance from the 'Vision R 63 AMG' The new AMG 6.3-litre V8 engine provides the performance characteristics of a thoroughbred sports car. With an output of 510 hp and 630 Nm of torque, the newly-developed, large-displacement naturally aspirated AMG eight-cylinder engine makes for a supremely assured and dynamic driving experience. The 'Vision R 63 AMG' accelerates to 62 mph in approximately five seconds and has a maximum speed of 155 mph (electronically limited). Power is transferred by an AMG SPEEDSHIFT automatic transmission with steering wheel gearshift paddles and a DIRECT SELECT shift lever. A combination of permanent all-wheel drive with a torque distribution of 40:60 between the front and rear axles, and an AMG sports suspension based on the AIRMATIC air suspension with Adaptive Damping System ensures the greatest possible handling safety and -- at the touch of a button -- allows a dynamic or more sporty style of driving.

The interior of the 'Vision R 63 AMG' is impressively spacious, with a stylish colour scheme and luxurious appointments. Two-tone nappa leather, AMG sports seats in the first two seat rows, the AMG ergonomic sports steering wheel with gearshift paddles and the AMG instrument cluster convey sporty flair. Matching the exterior of the AMG showcar, most of the decorative trim in the interior features a matt titanium grey finish -- complemented by trim in black piano lacquer on the front centre console. Thanks to a DVD player, passengers in the second and third rows are able to enjoy their own programme of entertainment in the 'Vision R 63 AMG'. Four 7-inch TFT flat-screen monitors are integrated into the head restraints of the front seats. For optimum convenience and a relaxed journey there are two folding tables for the individual centre seats, as well as the multi-zone Luxury Climate Control system which ensures a pleasant interior climate for all six occupants.

Steve

Do you mean the current (new) model Passat has reverted to the Golf platform? Are these all using transverse mounted engines? 'cos previously the Passats from around 97 onwards had their engines mounted longitudinally, like their Audi cousins.

Yeah, the new model Passat has gone back to transverse engines - probably because people realised the Passat was a cheaper way in to A4/A6 ownership (it straddles the 2 in size and shares bits with both, although it looks closer to an A6 than an A4, IYSWIM).

longitudinally,

Steve

Thanks for the info.

Wonder why they've done that - in the time they've platform shared the Passat with the mid range Audis, Passats must surely have peaked in their popularity. And as something of a bigger car, I would have thought the Passat more naturally sits with the Audi models in terms of size.

Still... I'm sure they've got their reasons, and I guess now they've got the Phaeton for the upper end of the VW range

Oooh, Paeton.

Indeed, but think about cost - there's a fair few more Golf (octavia / leon / TT /) platform drivetrains manufactured than A4 platform (A4 / superb) making a mass production cost benefit, and the transverse engine gives better packaging (less bonnet, more passenger space) and according to Volvo and Saab better frontal crash protection.

Means the 4WD versions will now be Haldex instead of Quattro based but that's no big deal to 99.999% of passat buyers anyway.

SteveH ( snipped-for-privacy@italiancar.co.uk) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying :

Umm, why?

It's a steel A8 hit with the ugly stick and in SERIOUS need of a diet.

A8 - Ally, 1,700kg. Phaeton - Steel, 2,300kg.

The only disadvantage is that the the transverse layout inevitably means McPherson struts front suspension, whereas the traditional layout allows more advanced front suspension. Whether this is actually employed in the A4 I don't know. Whether it matters in a repmobile, I don't know.

The message from snipped-for-privacy@italiancar.co.uk (SteveH) contains these words:

When come back, bring Phaeton!

Argh!

I don't know, really. I just fancy a W12, that's all.

Johannes ( snipped-for-privacy@spam-no-chance-sizefitter.com) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying :

While most transverse layouts certainly DO use MacStruts - which are, indeed, s*it - it certainly isn't "inherent", and it's certainly possible to use far better (whether "more advanced" or not) layouts with a transverse lump - it's been done many times in the past.

The fact that VAG choose not to shows either complete poverty of imagination or the rule of the bean-counter.

SteveH ( snipped-for-privacy@italiancar.co.uk) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying :

So why not have it in an A8?

(Or, indeed, in something else... a friend of mine should be taking delivery of his W12-powered four-door soon, I think he said this week... It's coming from Crewe...)

Much as I like the A8, I actually prefer the styling of the Phaeton.

Not to mention the fact that Phaetons will be stupidly cheap in a few years.

Nasty. Why pay that much money for a VW?