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  3. OT:Engine advice !! (Please read as: Fiats:- why I own a super reliable Skoda and let her drive this car!!!)

OT:Engine advice !! (Please read as: Fiats:- why I own a super reliable Skoda and let her drive this car!!!)

If anyone could help me with this problem/nightmare from hell I would be really grateful. Sorry for the long one below, but best to get the facts out, and you can make your mind up.

I think I have found a faulty thermostat on one of our vehicles (not my bike but my partners car) - a '99 Punto motor (60k miles down and head gasket done 20k ago). I think a major fault may be the thermostat (already replaced once before at head gasket failure time) is faulty on this basis of information: I immersed it in boiling hot water, and no apparent movement/opening at all. However it appears to be "failed shut" and not open, if that makes sense!!! I reckon its deffo faulty.

It might explain the overheating aspect (which might POTENTIALLY have warped the head / damaged the gasket I guess)

The problem identified itself at first when we drove for 40 miles to our destination, but the overheating light didnt come on until JUST as we arrived. So any chances of damage seemed to be small as we just stopped immediately!!

We also watching keenly on our return journey the same distance back ( hoping to shrug it off and noting the water hadn't appeared to need topping up at our previous destination). It did come on but quicker, probably 20-25 miles. I had no option (learnt she forgot to renew breakdown -grr!) but to sit and wait until the meter had cooled. So we probably had no more than perhaps 15 miles left, so nothing left but to risk the journey back. It got back, without any apparent event, and no warning light again.

I drained it tonight and the water looked pretty awful looking, like rust and the pipes were pretty mucky inside. Surprising as it was flushed 20k ago (but not reverse flushed through the rad). Oil is really quite ok looking really. A little dark which is usual, it might be a bit runny but no signs of mayo. I have yet to get the rocker off - this may tell more with more signs of the dreader mayo with cheese!!! How much fun is it to clear that stuff up. Not. If its anything like the mayo I saw 20k miles ago, I guess its bad news and time to knuckle it down again with the full Gasket kit and skim.

NO real signs of steam out the back when its running and NO real water leaking on the outside. Where is the water going to ???? What a magic trick.

In retrospect, the girlfriend had been complaining about it being a "bit louder" for a few weeks ( maybe this was a sign, or just misleading ). It very recently had the front lower pipe done recently which also may be misleading for the extra noise aspects, although it doesnt sound like its blowing from there, I still think it could be the head. My father thinks that nipping up the head bolts might help, because of the recent head (well not that recent, about 2 yrs ago but only 20k miles).

Im not so sure, complete head gasket might be the way but I spose I can try this trick first. The only thing to watch is overtighterning, so I can be conservative with my torque gauge. I am looking if necessary at the complete head gasket replacement, new thermostat, checks on fan, water pump working, etc. I done it once, so whats a little more practise. Its just that the weather sucks.

Doesn't seem to be smoking or anything that bad yet - not quite the end yet ? Reckon the little troublesome Italian still has some room left to haunt me. Am I just unlucky given I replaced the 'stat not long ago ! I also had a damn NEW water pump leaking on me the first replacement 20k ago too. I had the partner shouting I had done it wrong. I had great satisfaction in pointing out to her it was the part that time around, not my labour.

Thanks guys

Antony F

Reply to
antonyf
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Just change the stat - if you have no problems, then you're sorted - if it needs the HG doing again, flog it on Ebay and get something else :)

Hellraiser............>

Reply to
Hellraiser

So tempting a suggestion :o) What else would you suggest out of interest, and what is Sir's choice of used car emporium ?

Its quite difficult to find any comparable vehicle of this kind of age in the cheapskate category, hence why it initially seems better than to fix up (and has been invested in with servicing pretty well to date) than to replace with something that it lesser. i.e. better the devil you know, that the devil you don't.

However, if I could find a venue of reasonably priced and aged vehicles I would contemplate it ? Maybe even a car motor auction ? Unfortunately she has little to add to the pot as shes a tad minus funds at moment ( I helped fund this car 2-3 yrs ago for around £2k+ mark ). I'd really rather avoid shelling out another 1k, but £100 in repairs seems a worthwhile investment.

Reply to
antonyf

To be fair, it sounds like it's had some very dodgy and poor maintenance during it's life.

The cooling system is very marginal on those engines, so you have to ensure the water-pump, thermostat and radiator are up to spec.

I'd be *very* tempted to replace the pump, thermostat and flush the cooling system through with a very mild caustic solution, followed by a thorough reverse flush with lots of cold water.

I know replacing the pump may be a PITA, but it's vital you get it really well sealed in the block as it's under tension from the cambelt - but, to be fair, the first cambelt I ever did was on that engine in a Cinquecento - I managed it in about 4 hours all-in, including loads of cups of tea and quadruple checking everything was timed up right before firing it up.

Generally, the 1.1 / 1.2 FIRE engines are utterly reliable - it's poor maintenance of the cooling system that kills 'em.

Reply to
SteveH

Sounds like a lot of work, for a pretty shit end result, it's still gonna be a Punto that could have a wealth of problems within a year. I wouldn't be so prejudice against Alfas/Fiats (Fiats more so of course) if everybody I know who's had one (I'm guessing around 30 in the last 10 years) has had bother in a pretty severe manner with just about all of them. Typical age items that people whinge about, not justified, they need replaced, end of, as with all cars.

It just seems that in so many peoples' time, so much has gone wrong with Fiats, Puntos specifically, as they've proved to be a popular buy. Or were, up until a few years ago.

Reply to
David R

Yes, agreed. That is why we have been very careful with the vehicle.

You read my mind (except the caustic bit...I may have replaced that with some commercially available gunk that intends to flush the rad...although I guess most of them are designed to work with pipes in situ). Whatever, I'll certainly be keen to flush the hell out of it.

Agreed. Done this. Unfortunately the new one I got was a leaker externally so the old one went back on and never have bothered to replace it. It may still be working trouble free.

Got it from the online webplace 4 parts, I think you may know the one I mean. have a google and its well up there on the links.

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Seems a bit odd to have a brand new item go leaky, anyway it was refunded (asbsolutely no quibbles)

Having found the thermos that was also new as of rebuild of the head just

20k ago, to recently to appear as if its faulty is a bit perturbing. I think my dad is just going to pick up a thermostat from the dealers tommorow anyway, hope he doesn't get robbed. I could get one online for around £10. Similarly the pump would only be about £20, but the same source that caused me problem last time leaves me with just a bit of a niggle

Thing is, after the pump experience I am shadowed by the adage "aint broken, dont fix it". I think I will want to be sure its working anyway though. I believe I definitely need the thermostat, not sure about the rest. The good thing about Fiats is the price of parts. I mean, £50 for a radiator.

Depends what you call poor maintenance! I have done my bit to try and keep it working best as possible, when we picked it up 40+K miles. God knows what its life was like before then though,

The coolant was flushed 20k ago, and the mix included at the recommended level. At the time I had no cause or reason to reverse flush or do any further preventative maintenance so it was just a drain, and refill, but I did as I state go out of my way to replace the thermostat and water pump ANYWAY. Not that it did me any good.....

By the way if our service garage of choice hasn't done it subsequently at recommended mileage/intervals or checked antifreeze that would reflect on them entirely, and quite poorly so. I guess I should have just gone to a Fiat garage, or better yet done it myself.

Reply to
antonyf

A thermostat stuck shut would cause boiling in a very short time - probably about a mile or so. Unless it was a *very* cold day.

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

Citroen Saxo or Peugeot 106, preferably with the TUD5 (diesel) engine. Tough as old boots, cheap to tax, 55mpg, simple to work on, nonrusting, parts readily available. No brainer. :-)

Reply to
Vim Fuego

Would that be when you had slowed down and the radiator did not have much air being forced through it? , check the rad fan and switch first.

Reply to
Fred

Citroen C-3 as new is very attractive option, 1.4 16v engine with airconn which is an improvement for me from my Classic. With PX I am looking at £7k in change. (8k as new for the particular model).

I dunno if anyone elsee's offer is anywhere near, but even my dad who is usually a Skoda fan was impressed by it. Might be a way to get out of the Fiat problems, but I wouldn't be too harsh on it. Its a good engine and doesnt show any signs of smoking or bad wear at

60k. I have done the thermostat and flushed it and its going ok now, but its apparent any blowing appears to be from the exhaust which was just done. I may get this verified by those very handy guys at QuickFit.

The guys responsible will be followed up on this in the first instance though, as they were *meant* to remove the "blowing noise" and charged us accordingly. Perhaps they got the wrong pipe :o/

They are also the same brainsurgeons that reckoned I needed a head gasket and had some supposed pipe problem, but all the pipes have been removed and seem fine. Also they missed the fact the problem was simple just the stuck thermostat. The car has been running and is going fine now. The fan is also cutting in ok while it sits. No overheating light to be seen now, although it might take a longer journey to rule any water loss totally etc.

Reply to
antonyf

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