RANT about modern design

Presumably to encourage dealer servicing but the other effect will be to make these car very unpopular on the secondhand market, where diagnostic and repair costs are going to become prohibitive for those with moderate incomes. I suspect there is still a place for a simple, self-maintainable car, which the present financial climate may hasten along.

Making routine things more difficult means that less people will DIY it, instead they'll take it to the dealer, which, because it's more complicated, will take longer (which is then reflected in the cost to end user), so making them busier (same number of cars, each takes longer), thereby requiring more staff. This then allows for growth of the business without actually having to sell a greater proportion of cars.

Headline price of cars is coming down. Cost of maintaining them is going up. It'll probably get some point to the situation with inkjet printers - you pay significantly more for cartridges etc over the lifetime of the printer, than you paid for the actual printer.

Skeptic? Me?

Only if they dipped it but they don't like doing that as it means they have engineer in drainage, also dipping tends to be heavy and use lots of zinc. Electroplating zinc can't always get it into all the right places, like box sections or cavities such as those in rear quarters. Most are made from pre galvanised sheet and in many cars the cut edges aren't treated. They rot from the seams between the two films of zinc.

Apologies in advance if this is considered "off topic" to this thread.

Indicator stalks under the left hand for the last 30 years because foreign manufacturers like would not convert the mechanisms to the right for cost reasons.

I think KIA was the last company that eventually gave up and put the indicator stalk on the left because car magazines were always bringing up that it was "on the wrong side".

It really was on the "Right" side but the UK market just rolled over with it.

Wiper systems which even though some do sweep out to the pillars are just the same ones fitted to their home market resulting in unswept areas at the right hand side of the screen, one example being the Zafira.

At least the Citroen CX, BX and ZX single wiper systems treated everyone equally badly :-)

VW toggle light stalks that can make turning on headlights into a coin toss.

Clutch replacements that look more like a major dismantling job. (I have a P reg Polo with a clutch that's on the way out). Do you really need to take "all" of the front off ?

What was wrong with the clutch replacement method on the MK 1 Astra's ? I remember now, back then things were "designed" to be "cheaper" to service.

Hopefully that brings the thread back "on topic" :-)

Rant over.

Alan

If it was for cost reasons, howcome then that all manufacturers still have them on the right side for the Australian market?

As one Aussie once said to me, "you can always tell European drivers over here, they're the ones that wipe the windscreen at every junction!"

BobC

Or, in the case of early 90s Alfa Romeos (which, contrary to popular belief, are very well protected and mostly galvanised) - where the manufacturer decided to pop-rivet the bodykit to their lovely galvanised shell.

Visibility through rear window: The rear window may look large enough, but a large border are is blacked out, making the clear view area much smaller. Also affecting side window in 3 door cars. Especially noticeable in Ford cars.

Why do they do this? Is this a manufacturing short cut? You used to have full view through the whole glass area, and indeed car testers often commented on the visibility from inside when testing a new car. This was clearly considered as a safety feature.

There never was a UK standard. When they first started appearing many cars had steering column gear changes. And those weren't on a 'standard' side either...

I don't think that is entirely true. Japanese manufacturers were still fitting right hand indicator stalks well into the 90's. I think they, and british manufacturers, changed them to the left, to cater for the wider european and american l/h drive market. Plus it is cheaper to make one steering column switch unit and fit it to both left and right hand drive cars.

Ergonomically though I believe it is still better to have them on the right side for r/h drive cars, and on the left for l/h drive cars.

You sure about that? Including imported japanese cars?

AFAIK the australians don't have a large export market, which might explain it, if they do still fit them on the right. Mike.

Sorry, perhaps "EU" instead of "foreign" would have been better there

Agreed, that's what I was trying to say, ie EU manufacturers preferred the cheapest option.

I still feel that manufacturers from countries like Japan and Korea held out as long as they could but the "indicators on the wrong side" flack that they kept getting from the Auto magazines forced them to follow the pack.

AIUI I am sure it was not that long ago Kia's first batch of Ceed's brought into the UK had indicators on the "wrong side".

But not so that you can change gears and operate the indicators at roundabouts :-)

I was going to bring this point up, surely Japanese imported cars would not require these alterations. Perhaps the Aussies actually complained or refused to accept it.

The Holden Monaro's that Vauxhall imported probably had their controls swapped over.

Anyway, apologies if this has veered the thread of course.

The subject of poor wiiper mechanism conversions for RHD is probably best left for another time :-)

Alan

I do not remember saying there was a "UK standard".

How far back are we going ?

FWIW My mothers first motor was a "Thames Trader" van with an indicator button right on top of the steering wheel.

Alan

my a35 van had the indicator switch in the middle of the dash, near the starter pull

You talk about right and wrong and foreign vehicles.

Dunno. Just making the point that there was no obviously 'right' side.

At least that isn't handed.

Sure there was, they amalgamated with Triumph.

Last Vanguard was built in 1963.

My father had an Ensign which was possibly the worst car ever made in terms of driving pleasure.

Good one

I was 4yrs old then.

Alan

I quite liked the look of the teardrop shaped Vanguard and some of their commercials looked the business and were probably rugged enough to survive in the outback, but the rest of their range seems to have been defined by the term "grey porridge".

I was being born.

OK, point taken.

Something we agree on ?

FWIW My own involvement with cars only goes back to around 1968. It just bugged me that this annoying trend "might" have started with cars like the Golf and Jetta. But there "may" have been other car manufacturers doing it as well.

I know clutch and brake operating mechanisms could not be relocated due to a lack of space in the engine bay, but how much extra would it have cost the customer for a couple of bits of plastic and some minor wiring harness relocation ?

BTW I actually preferred the horn button when it was on the end of the indicator stalk ;-)

Anyway I apologise to "Mrcheerful" for this thread veering away from his original subject. and to "Dave Plowman" if I have used certain words in the wrong context and irritated him in any way.

Bye Alan