Solstice being built

It might surprise you to know that he must have a very unusual car - GM has actually got (consistently) much better in dependability surveys during the last several years.

FWIW - The latest JDPower dependability survey (not the initial quality one, which is another issue all together - it is not as important as the dependability one) shows that GM's American brands are mostly above average in dependability - Buick and Cadillac are doing really good, GMC, Chevy and Saturn are all above average. The only below average GM brands (American, not Suzuki/Isuzu/Daewoo) are Oldsmobile (which does better than Mazda) and Pontiac (which is just one place below Mazda).

See

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03050 fordetails.

If you use their consumer site for the Impala you will see that it's Overall Quality is "among the best" for it's class.

The

Crap in design or crap in reliability?

I would agree with the design part for the older vehicles - but they are about the same as Mazda in reliability statistics. I suspect that the newer ones will be a big improvement in design.

I am sure you are right. When you tell people that Buick is among the 3 most reliable brands you can buy for the last 3 years or so (better than Acura, Toyota, Honda, BMW, MB, right behind Lexus and Infinity) they are surprised - but it took the Japanese manufacurers a lot of time to overcome the cheap image they had in the 70's before people noticed that the consistent reliability surveys results they got reflected their true quality. On the other hand - there are still people that belive that Mercedes makes the best cars out there despite their awful reliability problems over the last years.

I suspect that it will take people a lot of time to realise that GM makes good quality cars. Unfortunately, most of them are boring designs - but if/when they start making interesting cars with this quality - they might become a real force again.

Ron.

Reply to
Ron Loewy
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taller

Reply to
Frederick Potts

I suppose it's kinda like Dave's dead '99 with 41k miles on the clock?

Sheesh, what *are* you trying to do? Inject actual, relevant, reasonably objective data into an American-auto bashing session?

;-)

Dana

Reply to
Dana Myers

This makes sense. If my personal experience ever shows that American cars are the way to go then I might make a switch. Until then, any American car that I can think of has a Japanese or European counterpart that I would prefer, with the possible exception of the Corvette.

Pat '96M

Reply to
pws

I do not have a problem with this. I would also consider the CTS and CTS-V as viable alternatives to the small luxury sport sedans and I am willing to give the new Pontiac the benefit of the doubt.

I would even go one further - if GM actually goes the whole yard with their Kappa platform and build a good, reliable, fun to drive like the Nomad concept - I might buy my first American GM Brand vehicle.

Ron.

Reply to
Ron Loewy

It's amusing you mention this. I monitor the r.a.m.f.mustang newsgroup, since I used to be a bit of a Ford motor enthusiast, and someone recently denounced the new Corvette as "looking like it ought to be a Mazda" in what must be a royal fit of sour grapes. That's just plain funny to me, since the Mustang hasn't looked like anything to turn heads in, oh, 35+ years... though the 2005 Mustang might actually be interesting, at least from a historical perspective. It's a far, far more successful attempt at retro-styling than the Thunderbird (*shudder*).

But I digress...

Dana

Reply to
Dana Myers

People who are that insanly brand loyal are missing out. The new Corvette looks like an awsome car and just to put it down becaues it's "not a Ford" is ridiculous. And it does not look like a Mazda. It looks like a Corvette :) I also like the new Mustang.. I like cool cars, I don't care who makes it. Guess I'm just easy to please.

Reply to
Scott Streeter

You'll be Soooo-rry.

Don't believe what you read in the tendentious auto media.

Kinda like the Wall St. Journal.

Uh . . . how's your 401(k)?

-- SM

Reply to
McMahon

Wow, I knew this was going to be a long winded topic!

My vote is for giving them a chance to prove themselves, but that takes time!

I wish them all the good fortune (luck wont cut it).

Chris

92BB&T
Reply to
Chris D'Agnolo

They have to build a good car that's exciting. The styling is exciting to my eye, the quality of the car is likely to be in line with other GM products (as previously pointed out, it's comparable to Mazda), and the combined power/weight/handling needs to be exciting (this is the part I'll wait to see).

Power and weight they can likely manage, it's the excitement in handling that'll be key.

Dana

Reply to
Dana Myers

Reply to
Scott

"For the first time, the study reviews models at three years of ownership instead of the historical four- to five-year period in order to better support manufacturer product improvement efforts in next-generation replacement models."

How nice. They lowered the bar. Also, they now plot from 50 instead of 0 to make the differences appear greater than they really are.

I assume not so much to help US manufacturers as well as to hide the fact that real problems tend to occur later, and plates do not vary that much yet after 3 years.

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All the Buicks I have driven as rentals have been absolutely horrible monstrosities. But maybe this one will be different. I have not seen it yet.

Leon

Reply to
Leon van Dommelen

Sure, and it looks...remarkably like the *old* Corvette. Still uses the same amount of technology in the engine, too, it seems.

Anyway, a Corvette's more a car for a parolee that already owns a rusty Camaro and has recently come into some money than a guy like myself.

Reply to
tooloud

More current than the February '04 issue of Car and Driver that indicates the 3210 lb. neighborhood?

It's made by GM. Remember that.

Reply to
tooloud

To each his own.

It's GM's Ecotech four. I don't think that has VVT. I could be wrong.

Seems like not to me.

None of those vehicles are remotely under $30k, and you expect GM to pull off something similar for under $20k?

I'll listen to CR if I'm concerned with the number in cupholders installed in the vehicle.

Reply to
tooloud

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