newbe timing question

Hi group,

I just got an early 74 MGB (US). The previous owner had had a rebuild done about 5 or 10 years ago and then put antique tags on it, so it hasn't been driven much lately. It's got 70Kmiles on the odometer, less than 10K since the rebuild. I've got the receipts and the work was done by a reputable local shop that specializes in MGs. I'm slowly easing it back to 50 mile/week or so service, keeping an eye on lubrication and such. I've been driving Hondas for 20 years so have forgotten what little I knew about the art of auto maintenance.

My question is about ignition timing. I recall from messing with my old Moto Guzzi (years ago, the lag again due to Honda-induced laziness) that I could match timing to fuel and riding style by advancing until it pinged on acceleration and then backing off a bit. When I tried that with the MG, it seemed as though I couldn't get the timing advanced far enough. I turn the distributor clockwise as far as it will go until the vacuum advance unit hits the oil filter and it only runs better. I even pulled the plug wires off the distributor, shifted them 90 degrees, turned the distributor 90 degrees the other way, and advanced some more. I finally got it to run worse on acceleration, but still without pinging or knocking: it just hesitates if I try to gun it. I put a timing light on and saw that it runs best with the mark advanced a good 30 degrees or more at idle (as best as I can judge, since it's way past the marks). The mechanical advance shifts the timing appropriately when I gun it, although I haven't compared exact values with the tables. I pulled the plugs out and confirmed that the mark really does correspond to TDC on #1. When I time it according to the marks, the distributor position looks about like the photo in the Haynes manual, but it seems pretty sluggish and stops making power pretty early in the range. It definitely runs better at all speeds advanced significantly from this position.

I am pretty sure that the vacuum advance is not working. It makes no difference when I pull the vacuum hose off either with the engine idling or revved. I did a quick vacuum test on the advance unit and it gives some resistance but will not hold a vacuum for more than a fraction of a second. I took the distributor apart and can physically push it back and forth some, but don't know how much play it should have or how much resistance it should give. I'm holding off on replacing the vacuum advance unit ($80 from Moss) until I decide whether to replace the whole distributor, possibly with an electronic version. Still, the vacuum advance is only good for 10 degrees or so, and if it's not pulling vacuum shouldn't the timing be too advanced rather than too retarded, and ... would it make much difference anyway to this aspect of performance? I haven't messed with the carburetor or checked the point gaps or dwell yet. That's next.

My current theory is that the carb (Weber downdraft) is being stingy with the fuel, and therefore it doesn't provide enough fuel to strain the engine. Someone suggested that I might have a bad accelerator pump. I see a squirt in the inboard barrel when I gun the engine, but don't know what it's supposed to look like. The plugs are light tan and dry (not black and oily, like the ones on my old Triumph Bonneville). Maybe it's perfectly normal. I may just pay someone competent to look it over, but would like to learn a bit on my own. I'd love to drive a known good MG to get a sense of how one should behave; maybe I could arrange that at the shop.

Ideas?

TNX! Dave

Reply to
dave d
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Its a low compression motor and you are not going to get it to ping. They are gutless. Just have to time it off the marks.

or

do modifications to HC cam mild etc.

Whats the engine number the first few it will have 18GB??????? then the serial? That will give you a clue.

dave d wrote:

Reply to
me

An early '74 in the states would have had twin SU carbs. Somebody has been modifying that engine and without knowing what may have been done with the cams and pistons, your approach to timing to the best driveability is about as good as you're going to do.

Tommy T.

Reply to
Tommy T.

Or ask someone who owns an early '74 that has been in the family since it was new -- my wife's came with two HIF-4s. The '75 model went to a single Zenith-Stromberg. That Z-S was often swapped out for a Weber downdraft which makes me wonder about the orginal posting being so sure that the engine in the car is still a '74. Changing the dual SUs to a Weber is a lot more effort and would make a lot less difference (in my opinion).

In the Sept-Oct, 1991 issue of the Octagon (publication of the American MGB Association), a technical editor noted that he was running his Weber downdraft equipped MGB at 22 degrees BTC.

Tommy T.

Reply to
Tommy T.
18V883AE-L506, which Haynes says has 9:1 compression ratio. I don't know if that changed as a result of the rebuild.

This car did originally have Skinner's Unions. Right after my post I found something on the topic at

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" ... This carburetor requires excessive initial ignition timing advance to avoid stumble on take off ..."

I really did some searching before I posted.

Reply to
dave d

---883--- seems to be an engine used in US market MGB roadsters from 76 to

  1. Tommy T.

Reply to
Tommy T.

USA Market also had single Zenith 175CD/5T from 1974/76

rm

Reply to
me

'74 1/2. The poster specifically identified the car in the sentence: "I just got an early 74 MGB (US)."

Reply to
Tommy T.

Still think that he has a low compression motor by the was that it will take all that advance.

What distributor does it have a pollution one?

Reply to
me

Gang,

First off, thanks for all the comments.

The body is early '74, the serial number is in the range given in

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and the Mosscatalog for the end of the chrome bumper period. I was surprised to seethat the engine number seems to be from '77. There's a lot stuff missingfrom the engine to be '77. It's plumbed like a much earlier model. I havea pile of rebuild receipts and there is no item for an engine, just parts.Maybe it was changed out before the rebuild, one owner before my meticulousreceipt-saving immediate previous owner. The Haynes manual says that thatengine has 9:1 CR, but the pistons purchased for the rebuild were Moss partno. 420-375, which the Moss catalog says lead to 8:1 CR. I guess thatanswers that. Maybe he wanted to burn cheap gas. The distributor is marked 25D (not 25D4) and 41491, which seems to be correct for early '74. The vacuum unit is stuck and won't hold a good vacuum.

I'm having fun with it the way it is, and that's the important thing. I'll probably fix or replace the distributor and let it go at that for a while. Still, it would be nice to have just a little more punch ...

Dave

Reply to
dave d

Its important to have the distributor working correctly. That includes the centrifical and vacuum.

Just look up the setting for a low compression motor to see if there is a significant difference you may find that there maybe heaps more advance in the curves.

rm

Reply to
me

It's not hugely odd for an older car to have a replacement engine from another car of the same type but different year. I've seen lots like that.

When transplanting your "better" engine into the other car, it's common practice to bolt on the same bits as you took off, or to replace all the bits from the newer car, so a hybrid of newer engine and older ancillliaries is fairly reasonable.

I can believe there were no significant changes in the short engine design from

74 to 77 so it may be irrelevant.

Incidently, low compression is a good way to start thinking about a turbo or mild supercharger. Dunno if that was the original intention.

Apparently >Gang,

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