Anyone got any good links for info on turbos/superchargers? I've had a read through the pages on howstuffworks.com and have a basic understanding of how they actually work, I'm more interested in the logistics of it all. For example, do you need a system specifically developed for your engine or are they generic to some extent? Do you buy a complete system or is it an custom-build type of thing? Who are the suppliers/garages to check out in the UK? Any info would be great, save me having to start reading Max Power etc.
OK, so what I'd like to do is find out what I need. I'll keep looking around on the net for more info. The car I'm considering this for is a '98 Firebird with a 3.8l V6 (about 200bhp). I got a very good deal on the V6, but it would be fun to be able to outperform the V8's (which are about 285bhp stock).
Fun to beat the V8s at what? The engine is only making about 50 or so horses a litre. I imagine if you took the heads to someone who knows their stuff you could get 300 horses quite happily. You could look on Burgerman's site and shove a nitrous kit into the car and get another 200 horses as easy as. We really need to know if you want to beat V8s around a track, on a dragstrip or down the pub...
Presumed injected? Then you need "fairly" low boost maybe 9 to 12 psi, some slightly lower compression pistons depending on what its like now (or extra head gasket or a thicker custom one, if on a budged!) and a turbo from a similar output vehicle, maybe T3, 3.5 or if you want to run lower compression still, have loads of lag you could run much more power with a T4 or there abouts. Then you need a better fuel pressure regulator, (that has 3 ports to maintain correct fuel pressure above manifold pressure.) You may need to increase fuel pressure fit bigger pump, or/and increase injector sizes. You will need a remap of your fuel injection system, and your boost advance needs to be taken into consideration This will mean some expensive changes and rolling road time with someone that KNOWS what they are doing...
But I could fit nitrous on it for about £100 quid! (But I won't! Cant be bothered any more) This would safely give you 300 bhp total, I recon, with FAR more lower rpm torque than you will get from any turbo.
An intercooler helps a little.
Less sensibly, you could fit an even bigger turbo, (see some truck parts dealers) and run stupid boosts and power levels, and use nitrous just to get it to come on boost! Great for the strip, but a bit cack on the road. And you need forged pistons and a very carefully built low compression engine, with big exhaust valves and special exhaust cam (if its seperate)... The would murder a stock V8 car.
Amongst US cars anything but a V8 tends to be looked down on. The V8 Firebirds from 98 onwards look quite different from the V6 (take a look at a picture of a 98 trans-am with the ram air package), so a V6 with equal/better performance would be fun to take along to Pontiac track days and such (might suprise a few people!). Would prefer to up the normal performance of the car than go down the nitrous route. At the moment I'm just interested in the options, I'd be the first to admit I've got a lot to learn in this area.
I did my Comp Sci degree at UEA, graduated last year. What's your UEA connection then?
Thanks for that. Yes, it is an injected engine, the current compression ratio is 9.4:1. As I said in my reply to a post from Doki, I'm not solely interested in the turbo/supercharger route, just trying to find out what the options are really. It's going to be a daily driver car so I can't get too crazy with it, not really interested in the nitrous route as I'd rather have a permanent increase in performance which doesn't need recharging etc.
I might add that for a MAX of 300 bhp you could still use a T3 and it would be ok. But its a bit restrictive at this level, so if you were to add nitrous later as you imply I would be tempted to use a T4 because it allows all that extra exhaust gas to escape without hurting power. But you will get more lag. But a T4 can and will give you about 25 to 30lb boost if you go mad! Alink to a cheap one I just found, similar to the T4 i used to use on my 1100 bikes with nitrous. About £210 at todays rates!
300bhp would be enough for the time being. Not sure I implied I would be using nitrous later, if I did I didn't mean to! What's the availability of T3's like?
Everything uses them. But there are different "trims" aspect ratios, exhaust housings etc... Go to google and find a "turbo calculator" there must be one?
Aha. I'd be inclined to go down the normal head porting route rather than turbos, as the engine's pretty lazy so you'd hope it has good potential. The problem is that it's a V engine so everything has to be done to two heads rather than one. I'd expect emailing / ringing around some Vauxhall / Opel tuners would be a good idea, I wouldn't be surprised if someone had shoved this engine in a Omega or Vectra. ISTR reading an article about this being done with a big yank GM motor, but I've no idea where. I suspect having the heads ported and the intake side of things sorted would be cheaper than getting low compression pistons and turbos fitted.
I also reckon as it's an american car, you need one of those giant chromed things with big butterfly valves on stuck through the top of the bonnet. I've no idea what they are, but they look mental :P.
I know someone doing a degree there. I was going try to cadge a go in the Firebird :P.
In article , snipped-for-privacy@BLOCKvirgin.net spouted forth into uk.rec.cars.modifications...
Have a look at Yahoogroups. They have a couple of groups/mailing lists that might be able to help. Have a look at JYTurbo and the Blowthru and Drawthru groups.
All are for DIY turbo installers, a lot are on US based engines and most are on carb based systems, but if you have EFI they should still be able to point you at manifolds etc.
BTW, when Saab turbo'd the GM (Vauxhall) V6 in the 9000 (I think) they ran the turbo of one bank of the V6 only. Might be an option if you didn't want complicated manifolds or twin turbos.
In article , snipped-for-privacy@ntlworld.com spouted forth into uk.rec.cars.modifications...
When the T3 in the 900 blows up, I'm planning on looking for a recon T3 from an early 9000 Turbo, as that was the same manifold fitting, but trim 60 :)
In article , snipped-for-privacy@ntlworld.com spouted forth into uk.rec.cars.modifications...
The T4 doesn't just bolt on though. The T3 Trim 60 does.
Don't really want to go to the hassle of plumbing Nitrous, as Saab gearboxes (especially in the 900) were oringally designed for 130BHP in the NA models, not significantly beefed for the 8v turbos 165 BHP, and no further beefing added (at least until after mine was made) when they shoved in the early lairy cam 185BHP 16v models.
I've got the weekest/oldest of the Saab Turbo gearboxes, with top power engines equal to the later CAT'd but updated APC'd models, but with the lairy cams of the early 16v Turbos. Scary Revs climb, boosts reaches maximum revs climb somemore, boost still at maximum at about 3.5-4k then all hell breaks loose, and I'm shifting before the engine hits the hard limiter at 6.5k. Above 4k it really explodes even though I'm seeing full boost before 3.5k. Really don't want to get the gas in there stressing the box even more.
In article , snipped-for-privacy@ntlworld.com spouted forth into uk.rec.cars.modifications...
Believe it or not, out of all the scrappies round here, I've found 2 Saab 900's, and one Saab 90.
The 90 and one 900 were NA, and the other 900 an 8v Turbo. All 1 year older than mine, so all with the same weak box.
Don't much fancy trying to haul a Saab engine out in the scrappies to try and get the box out from underneith it (the top of the box casting is the sump) And nothing else mates to a Saab 900 if you want to keep the inline 4 FWD and reversed engine layout that is standard.
MotorsForum website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here.
All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.