Love it or hate it

Or it's a Ford heh.

It's a fixed head.

Very Tony Pond :-)

Just future sales. If your car didn't rust you would never replace it. Rationing meant people got used to vehicles being made to last. If they had added rust proofing, they would never get people to replace=20 them.

--=20 Carl Robson Audio stream:

I am afraid you are a little out of touch.

Car manufacturers *garantee* these days their cars up to 12 years on corrosion issues but they do not want the original buyer to keep the car that long.

Most "first user"-lifespan is 5 years, the life span of fleetcars is 3 years.

Go and check your Octavia: do you want to sell it because there is rust, either structural or cosmetic?

I rate Lotus a notch above Skoda and find it not acceptable that *all* bolts are rusting as they do on a Lotus while at our Skoda Octavia (which is aproximatively the same age, has run three the mileage) there is none.

Do you honestly think that the fact that Lotus uses third rate nuts and bolts is going to incline a customer to buy one? Hell: Lotus even went very close to bancrupty using their Lots Of Trouble Usually Serious- policy.

In general terms: if the idea that in order to sell cars, one must make rusting vehicles, is or was the credo of the British Motorindustry, than the reason why that industry has either died or been taken over, is rather obvious.

Tom De Moor

The driver was probably not built-in obsolescence, but rather cost. You'll know from the famous US safety cases that car manufacturers work in volumes such that saving a couple of quid per car is important to them. If the people who bought the cars didn't care about the rustproofing, then there's no benefit to spending the extra. And when a huge proportion of the market was fleet, where the secondhand value was percieved as unimportant and they generally got rid of them while they were still young enough not to have disappeared, this is even more the case. Especially in the days when engines didn't last.

I share your disappointment in the motor industry though - it doesn't take much extra to make quite a lot of difference with such things. PSA appear to have got rhe rust thing sorted - why not all of Ford?

cheers, clive

Cost, IMO. As I've said previously, my bird's pov-spec 106 (1995) was galvanised. My 1999 Ford Ka wasn't, had design flaws (stones from the front wheels hit the bottom of the B-pillar because of shiet fit and finish) and rusted accordingly. The bottom of the b-pillar eventually got given a bit of helicopter tape in 2000ish onwards cars. I reckon they also use shit primer - a stone chip on my old Golfs had to be really bloody keen to get anywhere because the black/grey etch stuff they used was brilliant.

Stainless steel isn't a good material for high tensile bolts. But there are other rust proofing methods available.

The places where the stainless bolts on the Lotus are needed, do not require high tensile items. How nice the GRP-bodywork, alu rear diffuser or filling hole for the fuel tank, all with heavily corroded bolts (which most of them one can't get loose anymore).

Maybe it was Lotus way to create a parallel circuit where those stainless bolts and nuts could be bought.

Furthermore: Lotus has never heard (apparantly) of electrolytical corrosion as they fix alu parts onto steel without elementary protection.

The first Elises were sold around 12000 UKP, now they have tripled in price and "gained" almost 300 kg in extra weight. Lotus for one seems always eager to repeat its former mistakes over and over again.

Tom De Moor

ISTR the Elise started at 20000GBP.

Is sir having a few problems with his new Elise :-) ?

My mates 3 year old VX220 has exactly the same problem with the bolts round the filler cap. And when he tried to get it sorted out under warrenty Vauxhall had run out of them - probably because they had replaced so many!!

That's what they aimed for.

Our price (1997) at the Brussels Motorshow was 750.000 fr which translates to 12.500 UKP.

TDM

Don't worry, there will be a model with a Skoda badge on along shortly for 1/3rd that price. With all the toys you expect in a family people carrier, for less price than a Phaeton. :)